Observation 206151: Amanita albemarlensis Tulloss & Kudzma nom. prov.


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Proposed Names

54% (1)
Based on chemical features: At present, this voucher is the source of what species concept there is for the present species.
91% (2)
Eye3 Eyes3
Based on chemical features: This collection is the original one recognized as Amanitasp-V04”, a genetically distinct species in the “penetratrix group.”

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
I thought this rather distinctive species should have a provisional name…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-12 07:19:22 PST (-0800)

instead of a temporary code.


Thank you Rod.
By: dario.z (dario13)
2017-01-11 17:27:51 PST (-0800)
Cool, I’ll check them out later.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-11 17:24:28 PST (-0800)

Very best,


well, it is big!
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-01-11 10:49:15 PST (-0800)

It would have been interesting to see just what this grisette would have grown up to look like. It appears generally hefty in form, similar to our pachy, which is no doubt why one of the posters here suggested that name at the outset.

We have plenty of dainty grisettes out here as well, and I have seen grisettes from all over the country. The section ID is simplicity itself. Specifics? Not so much.

One pachy button shown here on MO is estimated to be around 7 inches, so not so far off from this. I was thinking more of the expanded form of a pachycolea, which is insanely large. Not really a fair comparison, though.

By: I. G. Safonov (IGSafonov)
2017-01-11 10:25:48 PST (-0800)

By all accounts, the giant pachycolea is an outlier for grisettes. Most amanitas in sect. Vaginatae are small- to medium-sized mushrooms, frequently thin-fleshed and dainty, at least on the East Coast. Thus, I would think that a 16 cm / 6" vertical dimension is an impressive size for a grisette button.

It would be interesting to know what the dimensions would be in mature material.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-11 09:27:13 PST (-0800)

Thank you very much for the measurement data.

Very best,


16 cm is about 6 inches
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-01-11 08:23:43 PST (-0800)

and that’s NOTHING comported to the size of our pachycoleas!

come visit out here in our winter season, and I’d be glad to show you exactly what I mean. Yes, some are well above a foot tall (some of that height is buried, of course). It is almost impossible to get them home in one piece tho, after that cap has expanded. The cap/stipe connection is its weakest point.

WE do a biannaul event on the Mendocino coast in January called ACCF; next one will be in 2018. It is completely focused on taxonomy and myco-geeks/self-starters. It’s not about sitting in a lecture hall but doing hands on work, in the field and the lab. And it is priced to be a break even event, so anyone can participate. And the lodging is cushy and the food great!

What’s not to like?

At any rate, consider traveling out this way next year. It would be fun to hunt and ID with you!

16 cm is a pretty large/tall mushroom, Debbie
By: I. G. Safonov (IGSafonov)
2017-01-11 08:04:18 PST (-0800)

A grisette that’s a foot tall? These feeble-fleshed amanitas would collapse under their own weight!

thanks Dario.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-01-11 07:54:37 PST (-0800)

that’s on the small size for a grisette.

some of our pachycolea are more than twice that height!

from top to bottom
By: dario.z (dario13)
2017-01-10 17:40:29 PST (-0800)

Size of the mushroom is 16 cm.

Thank you, Debbie and Rod.
By: dario.z (dario13)
2017-01-09 18:57:42 PST (-0800)

I promise that I will find the same mushrooms this year.

this is a long way from the CA coast
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-01-09 09:29:14 PST (-0800)

but your handsome grisette does share macro-similarities with our western pachycholea … dark two-toned cap, long striations, thick volva that reddens and perhaps a large size, too. that doesn’t mean that it is the same thing, just indeed macro-similar.

this was certainly a hardwood forest, judging from your habitat photo and the lack of conifer duff on the ground, but no certainty that your grisette had an oak host, just because there are acorns on the ground.

I hope that you can find more of this interesting material, Dario. We need lots of fresh fruit bodies to really establish species concepts.

DNA can be a nice confirmation of what we have, but it can be subject to over-interpretation, as Rick Kerrigan emphasizes in his lovely recent book, “Agaricus of North America.” It’s one tool in our identification tool chest.

Thank you, Dario.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-09 07:23:34 PST (-0800)

I’m guessing that this mushroom was large because of the size of an acorn in one of the images. Can you remember the approximate size of the mushroom (top to bottom) …or the acorn.

Very best,


Probably oak and beech.
By: dario.z (dario13)
2017-01-08 19:29:50 PST (-0800)
Thanks for that info.
By: dario.z (dario13)
2017-01-08 19:18:21 PST (-0800)

That’s GREAT news, Rod.

The photos incude acorns and acorn caps; so there must be oaks.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-07 06:59:41 PST (-0800)



Can you give a description of the trees in the area in which this…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-06 20:14:48 PST (-0800)

material was collected?

A skeletal webpage has been set up here:


Very best,


Note that I have edited the previous post.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-06 18:54:03 PST (-0800)


Hello, Dario. Happy New Year.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2017-01-06 18:50:25 PST (-0800)

We have modest luck regarding obtaining DNA data from the voucher material for this observation.

Although we ended up with fragments, they can be interpreted to yield some interesting information.

We get about three-quarters of a “proposed fungall barcode” sequence, and two disjoint pieces of the nrLSU locus. All three fragments yielded “closest match” type infomation to the same group of amanita (species genetically similar to Amanita penetratrix).

So it looks as though you have turned up yet another species in this interesting group within the Vaginatae.

Thank you very much for sending us the material, which seems to be a species that we’ve never dealt with before.

I would like to use some of your illustrations for a web page on this apparently new species.

Very best,


Thanks Dario,
By: groundhog
2015-06-23 13:57:17 PDT (-0700)

We have recieved this material and it has been accessioned to Rod’s herbarium. We are scheduling it for DNA sequencing.

That sounds really good, dario.z
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-06-09 19:28:01 PDT (-0700)

Thank you.


Rod,thank you very much.
By: dario.z (dario13)
2015-06-09 19:17:09 PDT (-0700)

The material is ready and coming soon.

I’m very impressed with your images of species of the Vaginatae.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-06-09 04:43:39 PDT (-0700)

You are giving a lot of photographic attention to a very interesting group of species in which the “boundaries” of species are simply unknown.

If you have time and inclination to dry the mushrooms that you are photographing, you could have an impact on the development of knowledge of these organisms.

If you are interested in such an effort, please contact me via the email function of MO.

Very best,

Rod Tulloss

Created: 2015-06-08 18:15:25 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2018-01-05 15:05:21 PST (-0800)
Viewed: 288 times, last viewed: 2018-03-05 05:19:36 PST (-0800)
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