Observation 276561: Arrhenia epichysium (Pers.) Redhead, Lutzoni, Moncalvo & Vilgalys
When: 2017-05-14
(42.0241° -88.3925° 268m)
No herbarium specimen

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

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Nice work, Nicolle.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2017-05-19 16:28:48 CDT (-0500)

Spore dimensions and lack of amyloid reaction point in the same direction.

A. epichysium
By: Rocky Houghtby
2017-05-19 16:26:12 CDT (-0500)

Is easier to identify by sight when it is older; as it dries out, the pileus becomes much lighter, and obviously striatulate, but remains dark at the margin.

Inamyloid spores
By: Nicolle Omiotek (Lilmyco)
2017-05-19 16:07:05 CDT (-0500)

Spore sizes:
6.4 × 3.8
6.4 × 4.5
7.0 × 3.8
7.0 × 4.5
7.7 × 4.5
7.7 × 3.8

I’ll let him know
By: Rocky Houghtby
2017-05-18 13:00:41 CDT (-0500)

You are welcome to make use of all the reagents, dyes, and tools you find in there.

I just collected
By: Nicolle Omiotek (Lilmyco)
2017-05-18 12:23:12 CDT (-0500)

Specimens yesterday. Also, thank you Rocky!! I will be at F tomorrow and will surely ask a Patrick about your box.

While at F I may have time to investigate this further through microscopy!

Hi Nicolle
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-05-18 09:49:48 CDT (-0500)

if you really do have a specimen (your obsie sez no), then further work is necessary to confirm this ID.

Fun how this ID is having a ripple effect on other MO IDs. The beauty of MO and real discussion and knowledge sharing!

Lose the Lugols and get yourself some Melzers! They are not equivalent: Lugol’s merely a necessary evil while we attempt to find the “real deal” Melzer’s, admittedly not easy these days.

I may have been…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2017-05-17 21:10:21 CDT (-0500)

lumping A. epichysium in with P. cyathiformis. Virtually all of my collections of the gray wood-inhabiting funnels have come form the same location, Ricketts Glen.

Looking at the C du Q descriptions of the two species, I see nothing that easily separates the two, except for the amyloidity of the spores of P. cyathiformis. Spore size/shape is fairly similar, with epichysium a bit narrower (larger Q). Maybe, as Debbie suggests, the thicker gills favors epichysium… except this sort of trait may vary with age within a single species concept. My belief has been that epichysium has longer more prominent striations on its cap.

I’ll keep a lookout for these here in my neck of the woods.

Compare with my photo…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2017-05-17 14:10:01 CDT (-0500)

of (proposed) P. cyathiformis here obs 179520; last photo.

I hate to say it
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-05-17 10:34:18 CDT (-0500)

but I agree w/Noah for at least this initial ID.

the gills shown here are thick and widely spaced, even if some of them are oddly forked.

compare w/Sava’s fine photo of A. epichysium here:

http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/513854?obs=202026&q=5GhX

Still, because of those odd gills, I would advise taking it a bit deeper to truly KNOW.

Melzer’s
By: Rocky Houghtby
2017-05-16 22:57:27 CDT (-0500)

There’s a bottle in my tackle box that you can have. Ask Patrick to find it for you next time you are at the Museum.

Smash mounting some gill material…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2017-05-16 22:54:49 CDT (-0500)

and scoping at 400x may produce observable spores. But I don’t know if Lugol’s will produce the same reaction/non-reaction as Meltzer’s. Even if it does, judging amyloidity from seeing only a few spores can be tricky.

I have Lugol’s
By: Nicolle Omiotek (Lilmyco)
2017-05-16 22:37:35 CDT (-0500)

But no spore print.

Nicolle, if you have Meltzer’s reagent…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2017-05-16 20:31:10 CDT (-0500)

and a spore print, then you tell the difference here between P. cyathiformis and A. epichysium.

This looks more like P. cyathiformis to me… cap innately radially fibrilose but not striate, stipe thicker than for Arrhenia.

P. cyathiformis…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2017-05-16 19:36:39 CDT (-0500)

is something I find in late summer through fall. But the periods of warm/hot weather we’ve experienced in eastern NA this spring (I assume this has also happened in the midwest) seem to to have fooled some saprobic fungi into thinking it’s now fall. My own observations of this type mushroom feature gills both forked and unforked. Here’s a pair showing this obs 179520.

very interesting gills!
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-05-15 11:26:08 CDT (-0500)

thick and branching.

maybe something unique?

if you do have this, check for melanized encrusting pigments on the hyphae.

Created: 2017-05-14 23:57:50 CDT (-0500)
Last modified: 2017-05-20 02:54:50 CDT (-0500)
Viewed: 200 times, last viewed: 2017-06-30 23:22:17 CDT (-0500)
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