Public Description of Pluteus cervinus (Schaeff.) P. Kumm.

Title: Pluteus Magnus/Cervinus Comments (Public)
Name: Pluteus cervinus (Schaeff.) P. Kumm.
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Notes:

Here are some comments left on observation Pluteus cervinus

Created: 2010-04-23 06:37:50 CST (-0600)
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
Summary: Thanks Douglas!

The links from Michael Wood was exactly what I had been searching for without succeding.. Perhaps they should be included in the description of Pluteus magnus too?

I wasn’t sure how to interprete the description of the cystidia, “with one or two triangular points”, but Singer’s drawings and your micro shots of the cystidia were enlightening.
Well, this really shows the importance of microscopy. This genus is difficult enough with a microscope.

Created: 2010-04-23 05:44:00 CST (-0600)
By: Douglas Smith (douglas)
Summary: Some more info…

Also in the “Pluteus of the Midwest” article, it says this under P. cervinus:

“surface often wrinkled at first but becoming even in age”.

So, do with that as you will…

Created: 2010-04-23 05:41:17 CST (-0600)
By: Douglas Smith (douglas)
Summary: And was discussed before that.

I had discussed it rather early on in this obs.

http://mushroomobserver.org/6783

And there are some ref. there supplied by Mike Wood. It think if you do a search on Google Books you might be some more info. Oh, also there is this:
“The Genus Pluteus section Pluteus in the Midwestern US”, P. Banerjee and W. J. Sundberg, Mycotaxon vol. LIII pp189-246. I found this online somewhere…
P. magnus is on p.214.

But I put these under the scope there, and I think the important fact is that the cystidia do not have “hooks” on the end, like P. cervinus. I have a photo of this on the obs., although it was one of the first tries at those types of photos when I first got the scope… not very good, but you can see the cystidia without the “hooks” of P. cervinus. Still pointed and thick-walled, but no hooks.

Created: 2010-04-23 05:13:01 CST (-0600)
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
Summary: The wrinkled cap

is a given character for cervinus. Pluteus magnus is not known from Europe.

The descriptions of Pluteus magnus are very confusing, because McClatchie originally described it as a large and sturdy mushroom with a white to greyish cap with scales, while many others describe it with a nearly black and wrinkled cap, resembling atromarginatus.
I don’t know how well his type collection has been studied, and I can’t see any evidence that its DNA has been sequensed and compared to others. From the original description, it seems to me like a species closer to Pluteus petasatus than to cervinus.

I also find it very strange that there are no pictures to be found on the web of Pluteus magnus – except from the ones here at MO.
Well, I saw that the species has been discussed here before..
http://mushroomobserver.org/22291?qFNV

Created: 2010-04-22 23:25:16 CST (-0600)
By: Douglas Smith (douglas)
Summary: Not sure -

I don’t think that the coarsely wrinkled hypothesis is really proven as a unique character of that species. You really need to look and see if it has hooked cystidia. It would be good if some more people did, and we could tell if the wrinkles are really a good feature of the species or not…

Created: 2010-04-22 23:06:39 CST (-0600)
By: BubikolRamios
Summary: Confirmed hypotesis

According to another image in galery, and this text:
“An edible agaric found in piles of hardwood sawdust; the caps are black and coarsely wrinkled.”
found on net I would confirm your hypotesis.

Created: 2010-04-22 18:32:07 CST (-0600)
By: Johann Harnisch (jrussula) [Edit | Destroy]
Summary: Is my hypothesus

of Pluteus magnsu having a wrinkled cap and P cervinus as smooth one right?

Comments left on observation http://mushroomobserver.org/22291?q

Created: 2009-06-19 01:42:09 CST (-0600)
By: Andreas Gminder (mollisia)
Summary: still have doubts, but

when you have examined it microscopically and they had no hooked cystidia, then it must be something else of course. But I’m still wondering, as they look so exactly like our cervinus here on wood chips or saw dust, I still can’t believe it …
Why ARORA identifies a mushroom which is said to have a cap “albo vel fumosulo [white to slightly smoky-grey]” and “glabro vel in squamas persistentes rupto [glabrous to breaking up in persistent scales]” with a Pluteus which has a cap described as “dark, frequently wrinkled” is not clear to me …. Judging from the original description it would be much more logical tom identify teh taxon magnus with Pluteus petasatus. This species is described in ARORA as “Cap whitish or pallid with brown fibrils or scales; often growing in clusters” – which fits perfect to the diagnoses of P. magnus!
Lets hope that Else reads this and has a commet to it.

Created: 2009-06-19 00:17:09 CST (-0600)
By: Douglas Smith (douglas)
Summary: Not that I know much…

But I’ve only looked at one of these, and they were large, with fat stipes and the fairly rumpled caps. Looking at the pleurocystidia, they were certainly not P. cervinus. They did not have the hooked cystidia that are caracteristic of that common species. So, I’m not sure if P. magnus is accepted or not, but the ones I looked at are certainly a different species at least.

Not sure if Else has an opinion, she has been looking at the Pluteus of CA.

Created: 2009-06-18 17:41:05 CST (-0600)
By: Johann Harnisch (jrussula) [Edit | Destroy]
Summary: see David Arora

Created: 2009-06-18 16:28:19 CST (-0600)
By: Andreas Gminder (mollisia)
Summary: Pluteus magnus

this was done faster then I expected. In Index Fungorum the spesies is listed, but not as a accepted species but as a doubtful one. But the description from SACCARDO is linked on this site, and this description is very probably the translations of the original description. http://194.203.77.76/…;
According to this, Pluteus magnus has a white to pale smoke-grey cap, that is smooth at first but ruptures into persistent scales. Also it is said to grow fasciculate.
When reading this description of the cap, I can’t believe that P. magnus should be a species with a drak and wrinkled cap. It should be just the opposit ….

Created: 2009-06-18 16:20:21 CST (-0600)
By: Andreas Gminder (mollisia)
Summary: But young P. cervinus

exactly have this dark colour and also the wrinkled cap. Especially those from wood chips. Lateron the caps get plane and smooth. Interesting! I will see if I find something about this strange Pluteus magnus …

Created: 2009-06-18 07:51:26 CST (-0600)
By: debbie viess (amanitarita)
Summary: magnus’ cap is darker and also very wrinkled; it’s quite distinctive.

Created: 2009-06-18 07:16:59 CST (-0600)
By: Andreas Gminder (mollisia)
Summary: Pluteus cervinus?

I don’t know Pluteus magnus (american species?), but the foto looks exactly like Pluteus cervinus.


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Description editors: Johannes Harnisch, Nathan Wilson


Created: 2010-04-27 08:32:26 MDT (-0600) by Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
Last modified: 2012-01-16 07:47:01 MST (-0700) by Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
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