Observation 103358: Amanita “sp-AR01” Tulloss crypt. temp.
When: 2012-07-29
No herbarium specimen

Proposed Names

2% (2)
Recognized by sight
Based on microscopic features: spores 8 – 10 × 6 -8 um
ret
81% (1)
Eyes3
Based on chemical features: Genetically strongly similar to the original collections called Amanitasp-AR01” per molecular work of Santiago Sanchez-Ramirez.

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

Add Comment
Thank you.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-08-08 20:11:32 PDT (-0700)

R

Absolutely, Rod.
By: Steve Roberts (Mushroom World)
2015-08-08 19:24:31 PDT (-0700)

You are welcome to use these photos (and any other photos of mine you ever need to use) on your website. As always, thanks for the excellent Amanita work you are doing and for keeping me in the loop when you learn something new about specimens I send you.

Hello, Steve.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-08-07 20:18:16 PDT (-0700)

Thanks for this material and the photographs. I’d like to use your photographs to start off the illustrations for the webpage for Amanitasp-AR01.”

Very best,

Rod

Amanita tuza is not mentioned in the paper.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-09-16 19:42:07 PDT (-0700)

I just did a search of the PDF to check myself on that.

The paper is available through some university libraries with the doi code: 10.1111/jbi.12402

The full citation of the paper is on this page:

http://www.amanitaceae.org?bibliography#S

Very best,

Rod

Hey Rod …
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-09-16 17:10:56 PDT (-0700)

did you would you link to that paper? Sounds like an interesting read.

Did they include Amanita tuza in that tree?

Hello, Steve. EDITED
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-09-16 16:14:33 PDT (-0700)

The the term “‘jacksonii’ clade” in the paper of Sanchez et al. names a clade (a subtree segregated from other subtrees in the paper’s large tree). This is a name for the subtree that includes all the “leaves” labeled “jacksonii.” The name itself does not imply any facts about the structure of the subtree…that is to say, about the species jacksonii and its “nearest relatives.” You’ll note that most of species with bright colored caps are divided between two of the larger subtrees: “‘jacksonii’ clade” and “‘basii’ clade.” These two clades are shown in the tree as sister clades—they have a common ancestor.

The “‘jacksonii’ clade” includes a small clade in the neighborhood of specimens labeled “sp-F11,” “sp-T31,” “jacksonii,” or “affin. jacksonii.” This small tree tells you something about the “close relatives” of jacksonii. All these members of the tree have (in the hypothesis embodied in the tree) a common ancestor.

Sanchez has told me that the data he has do not give a clear view of the boundary of the species jacksonii at this time. The Mexican "affin. “_jacksonii__” from the state of Hidalgo is in my herbarium (herbarium accession no. is RET 252-9 as is shown in the tree). This was one of the collections that was used to describe A. tullossii Guzmán & Ram.-Guill. Morphologically, I found no difference between this collection and material of A. jacksonii from the NE U.S. On those grounds, the name is a synonym of A. jacksonii; given the sample size available to Sanchez, he is holding off on how the relationship would be described in terms of species/subspecies/variety. To me, spore and cap-color differences segregate “sp-T31” from A. jacksonii at species rank.

In attempting to obtain more information and make a decision about relationships more tractable (maybe), Sanchez has mentioned developing a tree with more or different genes used as the basis of the study. Right now he and his co-authors have published in the new paper one hypothesis of the relationships within the Caesareae. The purpose of the paper was to use one hypothesis (the phylogeny) to derive another: the history of the movement of the Caesareae ancestral genes around the world. Take a look at the map.

Very best,

Rod

A. jacksonii or A. jacksonii-like?
By: Steve Roberts (Mushroom World)
2014-09-16 07:23:20 PDT (-0700)

Rod,

I was able to access the recent paper by Sanchez-Ramirez et al. in the Journal of Biogeography regarding Amanita section Caesareae. It appears there is an A. jacksonii clade. Any idea where this collection falls in the mix? Do you believe it to be A. jacksonii or could be a variant? I believe I sent this material to you in 2012.

Thanks,

Steve

more on the beautiful Amanita
By: Steve Roberts (Mushroom World)
2012-07-30 22:28:00 PDT (-0700)

When I took the pictures, it was at sundown, and there was very strange color in the sky. However, observing tonight with full-spectrum lighting, the gills appear faint yellow looking straight-down. Yes, in side view, they do appear more whitish.

And, the stem is yellowish -the only hint of orange being some very faint remnants (of the veil?) I found a specimen a few years ago with a lot of orange on the stipe, so I know what you are saying about the lack of orange on the stems in this collection.

I haven’t received the booklet from you. I am certainly open to improving my collecting documentation, but still have a long way to go learning and implementing scientific vocabulary. I will dry these, and probably will find more. I found several nice collections in 2009, and oddly, haven’t seen them again until this year. My wife brought these home after a walk in our woods -no basket, no bags -just a handful of mushrooms. I’ll take them anyway I can get them! (and am obviously thankful to have a mushroom-gathering spouse!)

Debbie, I wonder if the variety of responses you get regarding the quality of the edibility could be partly due to there being multiple specimens in the cluster -just food for thought…

-Steve

color perception…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-07-30 08:49:11 PDT (-0700)

to my eye, the gills and stipe are not white in this amanita.

that doesn’t mean that there aren’t cryptic species within this group, though.

Anne Pringle mentioned to me at the recent MSA meeting that there are two sp. of jacksonii-like entities in the Harvard Forest. Maybe even growing there right now?

cryptic species
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-07-30 08:45:34 PDT (-0700)

they are everywhere, aren’t they?

darn, now it’s the toss-up of table or herbarium. regardless of their latin name or eventual DNA determination, all of these brightly colored caesarea are edible species.

contributing to science is delicious as well.

take your pick, Steve!

This appears to be another example of the jacksonii-like entity…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-07-30 05:45:48 PDT (-0700)

with no orange on the stipe and very pallid, if not white, gills (when viewed in side view). T.A.K. has been posting these from Georgia and, this a.m., told me that he would send dried material. Since this appears to be a new variant of jacksonii or a new taxon altogether, well-annotated dried material is very desirable.

Steve, I think I sent you a copy of the methods booklet from a workshop that I did with Cristina. This would be a good species on which you could try out the field note annotation form in that booklet. If you don’t have the booklet, let me know; and I’ll send one.

Rod

awww, they ARE too beautiful to eat. :)
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-07-29 21:00:39 PDT (-0700)

but some folks do it anyway.

If you are curious next time, and can ID it with certainty, try one, and let me know how you like it. I am trying to keep track of who likes these and who doesn’t. it’s been mixed so far, but prob. that’s true for just about any edible mushrooms.

we know that jacksonii is an edible species (many have eaten it in NA), in a widely eaten (around the world) group of amanitas now called section caesarea.

formerly lumped with the ex-annulate grissetes in section vaginatae, they got split off into section caesarea because of their prominant skirt, among other reasons. members of the caesarea, including jacksonii, all have striate margins, often bright colors, and a loose, membranous volval sac that covers an elongated (never bulbous) and often hollow stipe.

Beautiful amanitas.
By: Steve Roberts (Mushroom World)
2012-07-29 20:30:12 PDT (-0700)

Oh no -way too beautiful to eat!! Truthfully, I have never prepared any Amanitas for the table. I guess if ever there was an Amanita to be eaten, this would be the one… what do you think?

pretty amanitas.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-07-29 20:16:35 PDT (-0700)

did you eat the young one?

Created: 2012-07-29 20:06:35 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2015-08-07 20:03:26 PDT (-0700)
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