Observation 108650: Lactarius Pers.
When: 2012-09-04
35.564° -83.5007° 1859m
Herbarium specimen reported
0 Sequences

White latex observed. Cap with rugose texture. On soil and leaf litter in forest with Tsuga, Picea, Abies.

Proposed Names

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Recognized by sight
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Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
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not to beat a dead Lac….
By: Bill (boletebill)
2012-09-05 10:38:26 AKDT (-0800)

…but there’s always the cap color fading and the gill spacing widening as the mushroom ages and even taking that into account confusion reigns. Two of the subspecies of lignyotus and one of the gerardii have gill edges that are darker than the faces (according to Bessette, I don’t have Hestler with me) and all of the gerardii types have plicate stipes at the apex and all the lignyotus have “longitudinal ridges” at the apex of the stipe and I’m not sure where that fits in with Irene’s description of wrinkled stipe apex for the classic European lignyotus….having said all that I’ve seen fruitings that appear to be mixtures of lignyotus and gerardii in a mixed oak hemlock forest with all forms of intermediary stages which makes you think of species clusters and polymorphism and the impossibility of distingishing the two until molecular evidence and analysis comes in…or so it seems.

Another problem seems to me…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-09-05 09:47:20 AKDT (-0800)

to be that, as some of the lignyotus types age, the cap color fades and the gill spacing spreads. Then there is potential confusion with gerardii types. I’m not certain, but I think that the NA Lactarius guide (Bessette/Harris/Bessette) mentions at least one lignyotus type with darkened gill edges, and at least one gerardii type with darkened gill edges…. But I don’t have the book here with me now, so I’d need to check this.

I do believe that L. gerardii sometimes has gill edges darkened only for a few mms that descend the stipe.

I hesitate to jump into….
By: Bill (boletebill)
2012-09-05 09:26:05 AKDT (-0800)

these already murky waters any deeper than I already have….but there are so many of this cluster of species in the CT woods that it is worth wallowing around a bit. If you wade through all the obs for L.lignyotus from both Europe and NA, and then L. gerardii, subgerardii, fallax and then look at say Bessettes’ Lactarius book and see the 3 subspecies of lignyotus, 4 subspecies of gerardii, lignyotellus, and fallax and then try to read Hestler’s accounts of some these and if you don’t have a headache yet hold on there’s more fumosus, fumosoides, etc. I don’t need to go on but the group begs for some clarity. This is yet another example of a group poorly understood (at least in mind) so we’re forced to use names as placeholders until more data comes in. I tend toward lignyotus when the mushroom has a darker brown felty cap, a persistant nipple and close to sub-distant gills. I tend toward gerardii when the color is pale smokey brown with wider gills and there’s is no evidence of a nipple left. I realize this is sloppy field ID oversimplified macro-ID-ing but it’s what feel I’m left with…

By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2012-09-05 09:22:29 AKDT (-0800)

The best macrocharacter in Lactarius lignyotus s.str. is the strongly wrinkled top of the stem. And it doesn’t have a dark gill edge.
The ones from Austria here on MO are good representatives – but these are no doubt close relatives.

Hesler & Smith in “North American species of Lactarius” describes 34 species and varieties in the subgenus Plinthogali, where this belongs (a key to them on pages 105-106). They also include L. lignyotus sensu lato (not sensu stricto)..

OK Irene, I’ll bite…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-09-05 08:52:19 AKDT (-0800)

I am assuming that the true lignyotus is European and this ain’t it. but it does seem to be what we are calling the American version of lignyotus.

How best the designate the difference here?

nice camera work and documentation, Christine.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-09-05 08:49:08 AKDT (-0800)

L. lignyotus seems to be a good ID, what with the pointed umbo and darkened gill edges.

A bewildering array
By: Bill (boletebill)
2012-09-05 07:03:19 AKDT (-0800)

of color forms, gill spacing, stain reactions and habitat preferences that fall under the umbrella of the several subspecies of Lactarius lignyotus. The preserved papilla and the red staining that I think I see in the ob make it probable that this is one of those many L. lignyotus types…IMHO

Created: 2012-09-04 18:38:32 AKDT (-0800)
Last modified: 2012-09-05 08:49:46 AKDT (-0800)
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