Observation 109675: Lichen P. Micheli
When: 2012-06-21
(47.4043° -116.4786° 709m)
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: 15-21.06.2012-TNWR-41

Thin convolutions that are black and somewhat shiny in areas. Could be coccoid shaped isidia.

This is a mixed collection, a similar looking specimen with thicker convolutions tests negative in a all spot tests (and hits dead end in keys).

Substrate: moss on soil.

P+Y. Cross section under LM: K+R (not norstictic acid), KC+R, C-.

Lendemere’s Key to Sterile Crusts points to Pertusaria coccodes

Images

262015
262016
the one on top is the specimen were talking about, the one on the bottom half is a different species (all spot tests negative)
262017
Same situation as in the above photo; top half of specimen is discussed lichen, bottom half is another species that tests all negative on spot tests.
262018
What looks like isidia, looks Pertusaria-like…
262019
What looks like isidia, looks Pertusaria-like…

Proposed Names

83% (1)
Eye3 Eyes3
Based on chemical features: K+R, KC+R, C-, P+Y

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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Its operator error
By: nastassja (Nastassja Noell)
2012-09-15 03:50:13 EDT (-0400)

Its gotta be. I think this is the 3rd time today… 4th?
My system is all out of order, my groove out of rhythm, my train off the tracks…

I feel your pain
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-09-15 03:43:08 EDT (-0400)

So much can go wrong with spot tests, though. It happens. And weird specimens pop up that just defy all tests, too. Ya never know…

mmmph
By: nastassja (Nastassja Noell)
2012-09-15 03:37:37 EDT (-0400)

This is the chemical test day from hell!!!

But thank you for your input :) I’ll retest them…

I hate to be a pain in the…
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-09-15 02:59:52 EDT (-0400)

But I’m not seeing Pertusaria here.

The chemistry has me stumped, too. You looked for norstictic crystals, I guess, and failed to see them? Still, I’ve been fooled by that before, so I don’t think we can rule it out completely. Was it K+ yellow turning bright or deep red? Or did it go straight to a more brownish (less vivid) red? Very strong fumarprotocetraric acid can do the latter. Same with thamnolic acid, actually, it’s supposed to give an intense “lemon” yellow (as in the skin of a lemon), but when very strong and when your K is very strong, it can go past that and turn very dark brown almost reddish-brown. Also, the P+y is interesting. There are very few things that are P+ yellow (as opposed to P+ orange or orange/red): psoromic and thamnolic and baeomycesic and nephroarctin (strong yellow), atranorin (weak yellowish). Also stictic and norstictic acid can give a yellowish orange. Strong stictic acid will give a K+ deep orange that virges on red-orange, could that be it? Norstictic seems almost universally to come mixed with some quantity of stictic, so maybe you have a specimen of a norstictic species with the bias cranked over toward stictic instead, explaining the lack of crystals?

If you’re considering norstictic species, I think Aspicilia cf. simoensis might be more promising. The pustules can look isidioid (I think they’d be called “dactyls” in that case?).

Created: 2012-09-15 00:03:44 EDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2012-09-15 00:06:57 EDT (-0400)
Viewed: 29 times, last viewed: 2017-06-14 02:48:43 EDT (-0400)
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