Observation 111311: Amanita “sp-S04” Tulloss cryptonom. temp.
When: 2012-09-26
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Spore measurements from specimen in second picture.

[28,1,1] (8.4) 8.5 – 10.7 (10.9) x (5.1) 5.3 – 6.4 (6.6)
Q = 1.47 – 1.75
L’ = 9.5
W’ = 5.9
Q’ = 1.60

Ive never smelled chloride of lime, but I do get a small whiff of chlorine.

Yellowing of stem from handling.

No reaction to KOH.

Specimen in the second picture:
Cap – 8cm wide
Stem – Just over 13cm from gills.

From the base, the veil runs 9cm to its highest point.

In first picture:

Caps about 4-5 cm.
Both contain the chlorine-ish smell.

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Add Comment
Thank you, Steve.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-31 18:53:21 CDT (-0400)

This material has been accessioned.

I hope to get it sequenced sometime soon.

Very best,


By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-09-27 11:00:38 CDT (-0400)


Could you please change the spelling of the code name to “sp-S04”? This is necessary so that we can have a rational ordering of the code names on the website.

The new page (to be started today) is here:


Very best,


I’ll be sending every 30-60 days until we get backed up with feedback.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-09-27 10:57:42 CDT (-0400)

We have to define our process. I don’t expect that to be a big problem, but we can’t tell too much in advance. Large volumes of sequence data are new to us, but we have software to support managing the data. We’ll see what happens.

The point is that we expect to be regularly sending samples out to several labs working on different issues for the foreseeable future.

The overall movement is bound to be slower than we’d like because of the mass of material, the need for human resources for all the steps of the process, and the fact that, with some sections, we’re engaged for the long term on section-specific projects with some labs. The sequences from such research can be slower to reach the light of day.

So, the bottom line is that I’ve put some relevant items in the cue over the last few weeks (more today). Whenever you send your material, first we put it in a cue for accessioning for the herbarium (we are rather backed-up in this area). When we enter the data into the herbarium, we check to see if material would be useful for sampling. We have multiple sampling cues for various projects and for the section-by-section sampling of the herbarium. We enter the newly accessioned items (where appropriate) into one or more of the sampling cues. We ship the samples from a cue when the number of samples gets “high” or when there is nothing more to put in the cue for the time being.

So this is the reality (I am always optimistic, so apply your filter for “optimistic person.”) I would think that whether you ship now or in November, there is a good chance that we will have some data in hand before the next mushrooming season is well underway. I have no idea if we will be able to see patterns in that data or whether we will just be more confused than ever.:)

The fastest process might be to send things that pique your interest the most now: white species of the Phalloideae, odd species of sect. Vaginatae, etc.

In the end, I am very grateful for the energies of you and the others who correspond with me via MO. I would like to provide what feedback I can…although it will always be somewhat selective. (We currently have three people here working on the mushroom side of life. Mostly we are existentially fighting entropy…presently demonically “personified” by the “check engine” light in Cristina’s old car.) :)

Very best,


If you are sending many things out
By: Stephen Russell (Mycota)
2012-09-27 08:46:29 CDT (-0400)

currently, think I should go ahead and send you the package from this year so far or go ahead and wait til the season ends? Id like some of my samples to get included in the sequencing queue.

I didn’t post a species page for S4 because I was concerned…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-09-27 08:14:56 CDT (-0400)

that I had simply segregated the narrowest spored specimens of A. elliptosperma and given them a code number (“S4”).

I’m really surprised and impressed that you dug up references to “S4”.

The most direct method of dealing with consistency and segregation of my species concepts is to make use of molecular methods available in laboratories much larger than my little shop. I have had offers of such support on and off for 16 years and have taken advantage of many of them. Such offers really picked up in recent years…especially since Dr. Bruns got me involved in the North American Mycoflora project this past June.

I’m in the process of sending representative specimens of ALL my species concepts out for DNA “barcode” sequencing. I’ haven’t gotten to sect. Phalloideae yet. This is a small operation here in New Jersey. We have sent out hundreds of samples since 1996. Now we are moving into higher gear with thousands more samples to go. I had hoped we might be able to send out a sufficient number of additional samples per year to result in coverage for all the supposed taxa in my herbarium in a few years if all goes relatively smoothly. (I wish.)

In order to provide the best service for you and other folks, we are shifting priorities on the fly so that we send out the taxa of the greatest current interest in the broader community (especially as defined by MO and the local mycological societies and clubs), while still trying to maintain a program of going section by section through the herbarium. This means that we will now send out material of “S4” and will post a rough page for Amanita “sp-S04”. Since we need to see the context for “S4”, we will send out material of magnivelaris and elliptosperma at the same time. [There is always the possibility that we will find evidence that there are more or fewer taxa than we think are there at the current moment…as we are learning from the our own experience on MO and from the generous sharing of information from Dr. Yang’s laboratory.]

We don’t yet know exactly what we can expect in terms of turn-around at the moment. (We are just starting to send out groups of samples numbering 100 or more at a time.) And we have not yet had to deal with the post-processing of raw sequences returning to us in the same volume. So we will see where the bottlenecks develop in our process (I expect them…remember I was an engineer at one time).

At any rate, it is great that we have you and the folks posting on MO and the folks that use the WAO site on board to help us produce results that will help everybody interested in the Amanitaceae.

Very best,


By: Stephen Russell (Mycota)
2012-09-27 00:26:31 CDT (-0400)

Do you have a species page for S4?

Created: 2012-09-26 21:06:51 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2012-09-27 11:02:11 CDT (-0400)
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