Observation 111969: Chlorophyllum rachodes (Vittadini) Vellinga
When: 2012-10-01
No herbarium specimen

Notes: Wow, big Amanita.

Yes, the color in the stipe really is so dark.

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Well, out here in the country…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-10-08 14:01:12 PDT (-0700)

one occasionally finds oneself at odds with an insect population. Regardless, the ant/rachodes thing is quite interesting…. contained within previous discussion here.

May be going overboard, Dave.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2012-10-08 10:14:34 PDT (-0700)

Thatcher ants are found all through Oregon. The nests can be near structures. They have no effect on structures that I know of.

The ants live solely off the fungi they grow, which is grown on grown on small twigs and shed Douglas-fir needles.

Wow Daniel… hopefully these ants…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-10-08 06:05:26 PDT (-0700)

do not ever appear under the Douglas Fir that’s only about 25 feet from the back deck of my house. As interesting as this ant/mushroom relationship sounds, this is just too close to home for comfort :-)

Yes, Douglas Fir is uncommon around here. This tree was introduced. it’s pretty large… maybe 60 feet. My wife and I purchased the property 11 years ago. So I don’t know the history of the tree.

I thought
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2012-10-08 05:28:01 PDT (-0700)

Douglas-fir was uncommon in Eastern US? It is a common associate of C. rachodes here in Oregon, also associating with Thatcher ant colonies. I believe Thatcher ants grow the fungus as a food source. Sometimes the ants colonies die off, leaving the C. rachodes to fend for itself. Almost always Thatcher ants form mounds of accumulated fallen Douglas-fir needles, but also twigs. I typically find these under full-canopy Douglas-fir trees, in near single-species tree situations. Are Thatcher ants also found in Eastern US?

Here in the eastern US…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-10-08 04:47:35 PDT (-0700)

C. rachodes seems to appear only in late summer and autumn.

Several years ago I started tossing old rachodes caps under a Douglas Fir tree in back of my house. For the past 4 years we have been getting between 10 and 20 every Sept/Oct.

That newly added photo of the torn stipe base appears to show the orangish staining associated with rachodes. It’s a bit easier to see this if you slice though the stipe base on the bias. Stipe does look too thick and smooth for procera.

Unless you have lots of mild weather,
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2012-10-07 15:01:04 PDT (-0700)

I’d look for this in April-June of next year, Sam. I think it’s going to be too cold for it to fruit earlier. (But I hope I’m wrong.)

cultivation of it done
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-07 13:03:20 PDT (-0700)

Daniel, I just followed your suggestion. Would I look next year for mushrooms from the cultivation attempt?

-Sam

I’ve been using warm water.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2012-10-05 16:56:03 PDT (-0700)

Tepid, anyway. Just because usually when I find this species fruiting, it is still fairly warm: around 70 degrees or so. I suspect the temperature and humidity help the spores in germinating. But at this point, it’s just a suspicion.

warm water?
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-05 13:27:35 PDT (-0700)

Daniel, the warm water is important, then? I’d think if it does matter, it would depend on the mushroom (as in some would germinate in warm water, some in room temperature, some in cool, and even some in cold water).

But, yeah, w/o knowing any better, warm it is. I will try your method. TY so very much. I feel so very fortunate that I brought you to this observation, as I may have learned something even more valuable than what I was initially inquiring about.

Cultivation
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2012-10-05 13:06:59 PDT (-0700)

can be done with either fresh or dried sporocarps.

Using fresh, blend in a food processor until mostly liquid, add another quart of warm water, and pour over prepared compost pile.

Using dried blend in a food processor until small-sized or dusty; add 2 quarts of warm water, pour over prepared compost pile.

Daniel,
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-05 12:14:14 PDT (-0700)

excellent idea. Can i do it w/just leaves?
powdered sporocarp? u mean dry, then powder them?

Chlorophyllum at least.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2012-10-05 12:01:13 PDT (-0700)

I’m woefully ignorant of many eastern fungi. This is one of them. I have grown C. rachodes, and this does not look like our Western material: too large a single large scale or patch.

C. rachodes is easy to grow, so it would be interesting to see if you could cultivate this collection: add powdered sporocarp to a bedding of leaf litter and grass clippings. Add some birch branches if you like as well: it seems to add bulk to the substrate, and encourage larger and more robust specimens. Place this compost pile somewhere near you, where you are likely to look at it several times a week. If C. rachodes, there is apt to be many young sporocarps appearing after the fall rainstorms. In your area I would also expect to see fruitings spore-atically during summer when temperature has dipped to 60 degrees or lower, and substrate has become saturated with recent rainfall. Fruiting usually takes place within a week after those conditions are met.

the more i look at it
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-05 08:28:55 PDT (-0700)

The more I look @ it, the more I see rachodes & not procera. Basically, here’s why:
Procera has a distinct pattern on its stipe, which this lacks.

Procera has a thinner & tougher stipe that’s hollow (http://www.mushroom-hunting.net/...), and this is dark inside and not hollow (http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/267990?obs=111969&q=hg5v).

http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/267983?obs=111969&q=hg5v looks like the annulus has a dark ring, as expected w/rachodes.

So, I’m at a point that I’d call it that, however I’m still looking for more opinions prior to trying it.

Dave W.,
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-03 11:12:38 PDT (-0700)

do you feel http://mushroomobserver.org/images/thumb/267990.jpg isn’t a classic parasol look? I can say I’ve found classic parasols before that seemed different than this mushroom. As for Noah’s suggestion it is likely a C. rachodes, the stipe is certainly thicker than procera tends to be and I think the proceras I’ve found have been much tougher than this. Gosh, this is like a cross btwn. rachodes and procera.

The classic Parasol…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-10-03 09:16:09 PDT (-0700)

will not turn red/orange/yellow in the cut stipe base. This white-spored mushroom is a good edible, cap only. The stipe is too tough.

Chlorophyllum rachodes, the Shaggy Parasol, stains reddish/orangish in the cut stipe base… and often on other parts, as well. This white-spored mushroom is listed as a good edible. But some people get sick when they eat it.

The mushroom in this obs looks like the classic Parasol, M. procera group, with the word “group” appearing because taxonomy of North American parasols is a work in progress.

edible?
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-02 19:43:32 PDT (-0700)

I’ve managed to get a spore print out of it. It is white. So, it appears quite conclusive that this is a Macrolepiota/Chlorophyllum. What do I do now to determine if it is edible (aside from trying it)?

whoops…
By: Mike McCurdy (lesmcurdy)
2012-10-02 08:51:19 PDT (-0700)

Lagging in the past. Chlorophyllum, I meant to say.

Lack of ornamentation on the stipe…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-10-02 08:13:06 PDT (-0700)

is somewhat unusual for the procera group. But this does not look like C. rachodes to me. If it is C. rachodes, then the context in the cut stipe base should turn reddish/orangish.

One thing I would wonder is that this could possibly be C. molybdites, the Green-Spored Parasol. Spore print for procera types should be white.

Chlorophyllum rhacodes
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-02 07:12:07 PDT (-0700)

Since no stipe snakeskin pattern, wouldn’t it be Chlorophyllum rhacodes, and not a Macrolepiota procera group? Also, ring is movable when I pulled hard enough to get it unstuck from the stipe.

The dark staining and the form of the partial veil….
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-10-02 01:11:26 PDT (-0700)

suggest a Chlorophyllum or Macrolepiota, perhaps.

R

Could this be
By: Mike McCurdy (lesmcurdy)
2012-10-01 21:13:00 PDT (-0700)

a Lepiota?

Sam,
By: Mike McCurdy (lesmcurdy)
2012-10-01 21:12:14 PDT (-0700)
Also,
By: Sam.Schaperow (SamSchaperow)
2012-10-01 20:59:06 PDT (-0700)

stipe was hard to tear & very fibrous, though nothing compared to M. procera.

And, found growing through a very thick pile of leaf litter (piled by a man) near a ~15’ tall tree that is a conifer that may have been cedar (definitely didn’t look to be pine or hemlock, & probably not a spruce, I can at least say).

Created: 2012-10-01 20:55:34 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2012-10-07 17:38:01 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 336 times, last viewed: 2016-10-23 22:11:44 PDT (-0700)
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