Observation 113207: Punctelia missouriensis G. Wilh. & Ladd
When: 2012-08-16
Herbarium specimen reported

Proposed Names

47% (2)
Recognized by sight
77% (2)
Eye3 Eyes3
Based on chemical features: despite the C- test…

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

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ID confirmed by Jim Bennett
By: Andrew Khitsun (Andrew)
2014-06-27 00:24:39 CDT (-0400)
You bet.
By: Andrew Khitsun (Andrew)
2012-10-14 17:35:35 CDT (-0400)

I was stumped many times in the past when test didn’t confirm visual ID, or I wouldn’t be able to follow keys because chemical tests didn’t check out. Now I can guess where my problem was – I tended to choose flatter, outer parts of thallus to tease out and expose medula, because there I didn’t have to dig through all the isidia-soredia-and-whatever-else-might-be-in-the-middle-of-the-thallus. That approach now seems unwise, but I just didn’t know better at the time.

Very useful to know
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-10-14 17:24:53 CDT (-0400)

I tend to try to test where the medulla is thickest anyway, but now we know it’s doubly-important. Thanks for following up on that.

Just double-checked,
By: Andrew Khitsun (Andrew)
2012-10-14 17:05:25 CDT (-0400)

It’s all the same species, but basically, the thin parts of lichen, with thin layer of medula, don’t respond to C at all, even if they have fairly developed soredia, but towards the center of thallus I have not just pink, but red forming instantaneously when touched by C.

Ve have vays of making him talk…
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-10-14 01:44:31 CDT (-0400)

Yes it was a beautiful specimen. As usual. It’s just not fair. I get a few scraggly lobes barely hanging on for dear life here in so. Cal. and I count myself blessed! Haha, and to think this guy Hasse (lichenologist here turn of the century ~1900) would describe species based on these scraps! Many have never been seen again. The real miracle, is they’re mostly holding up after all these decades and vast sea-changes in methodology and taxonomy. What a guy. Yeah, me, I just like to look at purty flowers…

Perhaps I was removing too much tissue, getting too deep.
By: Andrew Khitsun (Andrew)
2012-10-14 00:45:29 CDT (-0400)

You know, I don’t have that much experience with this yet – I’m at the level of a blacksmith, but need to become a clockmaster. I’m going through this batch trying to make sure I’m dealing with the same species, not two mixed together (the patch of lichen was very expansive, and it’s not that unusual for me to pick more than one species not realizing it). Then I’ll torture them some more to see what’s going on here.

What a relief!
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-10-14 00:06:31 CDT (-0400)

Good to get it right once in a while. :) Interesting that it was testing negative even under some soralia, usually that’s where the secondary substances are strongest if anything. Tricky little devil.

Thanks for insisting
By: Andrew Khitsun (Andrew)
2012-10-13 19:59:58 CDT (-0400)

After another specimen from a location nearby tested strongly C+, I thought it was different species (see bottom two photos I just added). But I returned to the original specimen and re-tested it – sure enought there is plenty of pink there. The only problem is – some parts test negative. I guess not all medula is created equal.

There is always the possibility
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-10-13 02:23:58 CDT (-0400)

that your C has “expired”. It’s happened to everyone. Bleach out-gasses really fast, and can go flat within days or weeks depending on how it’s stored. I’m sure you know all that, but it’s worth a reminder just in case!

Regardless of the C test, I still argue that P. missouriensis is the most promising name for this thing.

I just don’t know
By: Andrew Khitsun (Andrew)
2012-10-12 21:56:07 CDT (-0400)

K test leaves some stain on the cortex, whether you call it yellow or green. But C test is definitely negative: I tried on lobe tissue and under soredia – it’s all the same.

The quality of the soredia/isidia trump all
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-10-12 01:21:30 CDT (-0400)

P. missouriensis is the only one that looks anything like this. I guess the lecanoric acid is just really weak?? Chemical deficient strains must exist for all these things, I suppose, just like there are albino humans, deer, etc.

I can’t figure this one out
By: Andrew Khitsun (Andrew)
2012-10-11 21:09:06 CDT (-0400)

I must have picked a wrong genus – Punctelia. It doesn’t check out. Lower surface is white. Abundant soredia looks like soredia on the lobe tips, and like isidia in the center (or isidia looks like soredia?). K-, C-.

Created: 2012-10-11 20:57:34 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2015-12-19 00:18:11 CST (-0500)
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