Observation 114608: Gymnopilus P. Karst.

When: 2012-10-27

Collection location: Dallas, Pennsylvania, USA [Click for map]

Who: Dave W (Dave W)

Specimen available

The mushrooms seen in this current obs are from the same fruiting on a stump as seen in the link.

My own concept of G. junonius had included the following: Orange woodland mushroom growing in clusters directly on standing or fallen trees, spore print rusty orange, odor spicy and like licorice. These mushrooms lack both the strongly orange color and the odor. Spore print rusty brown.

As has been suggested by several MO members my concept may be too narrow. This observation agrees very well with Kuo’s version of G. junonius. Looks like a spceies complex to me… or maybe when this species grows out in the open (like these) it devlopes different macro characters than when found in the woods.

Proposed Names

1% (2)
Recognized by sight
Based on microscopic features: brown basidioles.
81% (1)
Recognized by sight

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
No problem, Dave
By: I. G. Safonov (IGSafonov)
2017-12-29 20:46:11 CET (+0100)

I think I entered here all the collections that had been accessioned to the NJMA Herbarium. It’s possible you gave us more stuff that hasn’t been processed yet, but it will be dealt with accordingly in due time. :-)

Thanks so much, Igor…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2017-12-29 19:19:22 CET (+0100)

for insuring these and other collections I sent to NJMA are properly stored/catalogued.

By: Rocky Houghtby
2014-04-08 03:40:47 CEST (+0200)

After studying several more Gymnopilus this weekend, and further reviewing Hesler’s annotations, I have to reverse my position on the cells you inquired about. I now believe that the cells pictured below may indeed be pleurocystidia. I apologize for so confidently insisting otherwise.

You’re welcome, Rocky.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-03-31 20:38:27 CEST (+0200)

And thanks for sharing your insight regarding cystidia/basidia determinations.

By: Rocky Houghtby
2014-03-31 17:27:35 CEST (+0200)

will generally be shaped differently and protrude further than the basidia. In the case of Gymnopilus, the cystidia are often flask shaped and are almost always capitate. Initially, I considered that the large clavate cells lacking sterigma seen in this observation may be pleurocystidia. However, after observing so many intermediate forms with developing sterigma, and the odd cellular contents that were not observed in the cheilocystidia, I have to conclude that these cells are basidia as well.

I appreciate your offer to set more material aside. I would like to study some collections representing this species across several points of maturity. I still have plenty of the material that you did send and I intend to updated this observation with images of the pileus trama, pellis, caulocystidia and cheilo cystidia as time permits. I also intend to work on the stipulate “bellelus” collection you sent soon. Thank you again for sharing these collections!

Thanks again, Rocky.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-03-31 16:52:24 CEST (+0200)

I now see the green tint in the small bubbles within the basidia. Is there a trick to telling the difference between a basidium which lacks projections (spore connectors) and a thinly clavate cystidium?

Also, thanks for the “clarification” of the Gymnopilus nomenclature :-) I guess this is what you, Richard, and few other MO folks are hoping to make better defined. I’ll make it a point to set aside Gymnopilus materials for study. Sometimes they appear in the spring. Although with the cold weather seeming to want to hang on around here, this may be a real long-shot.

I forgot
By: Rocky Houghtby
2014-03-31 15:58:20 CEST (+0200)

To mention why it’s divergent from validipes…. I spent 5 hours examining the lamella in crush mounts and found no pleurocystidia what so ever, just tons and tons and tons of basidia. Also, the spores did not react to Melzer’s at all.

YW, Dave
By: Rocky Houghtby
2014-03-31 15:33:26 CEST (+0200)

correct, the structures you are inquiring about are developing basidia. In addition to the the hyaline basidioles pictured in photograph 5, photographs 7, 8 and 9 feature the sparse dark brown basidioles. All of the basidia and some of the basidioles contained small, refractive bubbles or droplets with a greenish cast.
to the best of my knowledge, spectabilis is a defunct synonym of Phaeolepiota aurea. junonius can be applied to almost any Gymnopilus, and even some Pholiota- it’s so damn vauge! I would prefer to apply junonius to material from sweden that is smaller and occurs singly to scattered.

Thanks Rocky.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-03-31 14:20:37 CEST (+0200)

Looks like you spent some time examining this material. I appreciate the effort. Maybe I can add a little to my scant knowledge of microscopic traits. I have a copy of Largent HTIMTG III, but some of the concepts elude me. So… regarding the 5th micro-photo from the top (Hymenium 400x), I recognize as basidia the relatively large cylindrical/clavate objects showing the projections to which the spores had been attached. Are the similarly-sized cylindrical/clavate objects not showing projections also basidium? I surmise the smaller clavate objects are immature basidia. Also, what do you mean by “pigmented liquid”?

What is the current status of the applications of “junonius” and “spectabilis” to NA collections?

By: Rocky Houghtby
2014-03-31 06:51:54 CEST (+0200)

Sorry it took so long Dave. This material doesn’t really match up with Hesler’s description of validipes-

spores were 5.8(5.1) X 9.6(10.9)

1000X NH4OH

400X NH4OH

400X, Melzer’s for 1 hour and washed with NH4OH

From the gill trama

Hymenium 400X NH4OH, note the pigmented liquid contents of the basidia

tama NH4OH

Brown basidioles in NH4OH

Materials will be mailed…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2013-11-15 23:10:28 CET (+0100)

Saturday morning (11/16). One specimen from this obs, and a couple small ones representing the G. bellulus obs.

That will be swell
By: Rocky Houghtby
2013-11-13 05:10:18 CET (+0100)

Thanks Dave! The timing should be just fine.

By: Dave W (Dave W)
2013-11-13 05:06:22 CET (+0100)

I’m planning to send you one of these specimens this Friday. I’ll also inlcude a small amount of the G. bellulus. Unless I hear from you that the timing is bad, you may expect to receive the mailing sometime early next week.

Okay Rocky.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2013-11-04 02:53:01 CET (+0100)

I’ll send the large Gymn specimsn to you and keep the other one in case Rich would like to see it. As for the bellulus collection, Rich suggested that I submit the material to an herbarium. So I think I’ll wait for maybe a week and see if this turns out to be a desirable option. Even if it is, I’ll hold one small specimen for you. So let’s wait for a week or so, and then I’ll get a package inot the mail.

By: Rocky Houghtby
2013-11-04 01:45:35 CET (+0100)

Sorry to hear that your season has been dry. Thank you for offering to share your collection of G. validipes! Materials can be mailed to the herbarium@ the Field Museum-

Patrick Leacock
Collections Center
Field Museum of Natural History
1400 South Lake Shore Drive
Chicago, IL 60605-2496

I trust that the destination will assuage your concerns about legality? I would be thrilled to receive your bellulus collection as well, if you are willing to part with it.

Thank you!

I thought I remembered keeping…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2013-11-03 20:32:15 CET (+0100)

some of the Gymn material from last year. Turns out there are two specimens labeled “112841 or 114608.”
I brought home a fair amount of this type stuff last year, and I am uncertain about which collection is represented by the dried specimens. Looking at them now, I think they represent this collection (114608).

Rocky, if you and/or Rich want to examine this material, I’d like to send it along. Like I said in the last comment, though, I am a bit concerned about putting this type material into the mail.

Dry weather this autumn…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2013-11-03 07:40:54 CET (+0100)

has not been good for the mushrooms. I checked the spot a few times where I found these last year but found none of the Gymns. One more spot to check. If I find any, then you and Rich are welcome to them, although I am concerned about sending potentially illegal material through the mail. Perhaps there is a recommendation as to limiting the quantity which one sends?

Rocky, did you see this obs?
I have a few of these.

Preemptive solicitation
By: Rocky Houghtby
2013-11-02 19:52:21 CET (+0100)

Dave, if you collect this again this year PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE send some to Richard and Myself! :)

Maybe next year…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-11-21 20:22:27 CET (+0100)

I’m hoping to obtain a better scope; the Bio dept at the college where I work is replacing some old ones and they told me they’ll set aside a decent 1000x scope for me. Everything I know about Biology and microscopes has come about as result of my interest in mushrooms. So my knowledge tends to be piecemeal, and I could stand to learn a few things about the stuff I see with a scope.

This is the only year that I’ve encountered large fruitings of these pale-colored, non-aromatic, rusty-brown spored Gyms. So it may be a one-shot-deal. But, in my experience, types of mushrooms seem to come and go in several year cycles. So maybe this type will appear again next year. The spots where I found them are places I visit regularly.

I am hesitant, for reasons that should be obvious, to mail this type of material to others for study.

I agree..
By: Rocky Houghtby
2012-11-21 20:08:23 CET (+0100)

With Walt in the obs you linked that validipes is morphologically distinct from similar species. I question, however, the significance of both season and ecology, as what we call junonius indiscriminately occurs in both aforementioned scenarios in other states.

Your obs is by and large the closest I’ve seen to validipes on MO. It would be tremendous if you could provide descriptions of the cystidia, pileus trama, and lamellae trama.

I read the extended discussion…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-11-21 17:48:37 CET (+0100)

regarding these species names as applied to another member’s post. It seems to me like more studies are necessary to determine whether the name G. junonius encompasses several macro-varieties, or there are truly different species.

But for now, I think these types I’ve encountered this past fall (several large fruitings) seem quite different from the type that I have come to know as G. junonius. So, having this obs displayed under the name “G. validipes”, but with “G. junonius” ranking a mere percentage point behind, seems sensible to me.

I don’t know if this will help…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-10-29 06:49:58 CET (+0100)

but I made a cross section of a cap and mounted in Congo red. 400X.

By: Richard Kneal (bloodworm)
2012-10-27 18:04:57 CEST (+0200)

i tried to email you…
you must have that disabled.
i have something that might interest you.
you can email me @ bloodworm@shroomery.org if you want.

By: Richard Kneal (bloodworm)
2012-10-27 17:59:28 CEST (+0200)

check Pileus trama.

These are the same as…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2012-10-27 17:59:17 CEST (+0200)


For several weeks now, the mushrooms have been fruting and slowly developing from the same buried stump. Note the presence of stunted buttons mixed in with the developed mushrooms; maybe due to frost/freeze.

Created: 2012-10-27 17:29:50 CEST (+0200)
Last modified: 2017-12-29 20:46:11 CET (+0100)
Viewed: 553 times, last viewed: 2017-12-31 13:07:25 CET (+0100)
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