Observation 114745: Cortinarius elotoides M.M. Moser & McKnight

When: 2012-10-20

Collection location: north of Crater Lake, Klamath Co., Oregon, USA [Click for map]


Who: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)

Specimen available

Terrestrial under old growth Pseudotsuga menzesii, approx 100 yards from upper Rogue River. Brown cap, white flesh, abruptly bulbous base.


Cortinarius w bulbous base in situ
Cortinarius w bulbous base in hand
Cortinarius w bulbous base in lab
elotoides not found
elotoides in GB

Proposed Names

50% (3)
Recognized by sight: brown gills, obvious cortina remnants on stipe

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
Good catch Jonathan,
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2017-05-28 15:06:08 PDT (-0700)

and here I thought you were a southern Oregon country gentleman.

aaaaaaaaaand it’s Frank by a nose!
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-05-28 10:02:39 PDT (-0700)

Sorry Jonathan. Couldn’t resist that sports reference. :)

Nicely played, and we all learned something about citations here.

re: name author is different from pub authors…
By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2017-05-28 09:51:27 PDT (-0700)

Cortinarius elotoides M.M. Moser & McKnight, in Moser, McKnight & Ammirati, Mycotaxon 55: 311 (1995)

side note: It’s a bit troubling when sports have a higher standard for integrity than science! Even games have rules to play by.

Thanks Ron, for being able to handle my east coast brashness —

Thanks Jonathan,
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2017-05-25 12:48:54 PDT (-0700)

All is good.
And I have to try and remember my attempts at humor work better when face to face vs over the internet.

re: What’s in a game?
By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2017-05-25 11:09:59 PDT (-0700)

Thanks Ron—

Well, I hope that you would participate in the mess in the future — so I’m sorry that my reaction would push you or others away from doing that. as I look back, I was asking for help to be able to add the name, so thanks also for reminding me.

In short, I reacted, got sucked into the “game”—

more to reflect on as I wander the woods again soon…

amends are great
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-05-25 11:08:19 PDT (-0700)

and I know no harm was meant by you, Ron. And I am glad to see Jonathan backing off a bit, too.

But MO is designed for everyone to have the ability to name these species, regardless of poster. Votes determine consensus validity. Any obsie is open to debate. Our lengthy dialogues, for good or for ill, contribute to our understanding of both species and the people who post ’em!

You did nothing wrong, and neither you nor I contribute here merely for “points.” That is secondary to contributing to the ever-growing communal knowledge base.

Our own obsies are subject to spirited debate and one-up namings as well!

How many thousands of hours have you spent on MO, Ron, and not in a frivolous way?

That gives you MO cred, and well it should.

Debate is good and healthy. We are not cookie cutter mycologists.

Looks like I made a mistake
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2017-05-25 10:45:42 PDT (-0700)

in adding the name without first consulting with you.
I was just trying to expedite the process of getting the name and identification up to date. I’m really not into the credit or point system on MO. It’s already compromised by the ability of contributors to post dozens of repetitive 10 point photos that serve no real purpose.
In the past several years I’ve added dozens of Cortinarius names to the MO Index just for the purpose of making the site current, even when there was as yet no actual observation of the particular species.
I would undo it if possible and I certainly promise not to mess with your observations in the future.
That’s a great find and expands our knowledge of the range of the species.
I also like to hunt in that area…a topic we have discussed in the past.

re: apology to Ron
By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2017-05-25 10:31:50 PDT (-0700)

I realize I’m probably guilty of communicating brashly too.

Clearly some projection…

and lessons for me to learn.

Hey Jonathan
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-05-25 10:24:42 PDT (-0700)

A lot of excuses get made over why some won’t post photos here. But MO is set up to BE a photo sharing site. One must assume scruples in others, unless proved wrong. I both have my own photos here used by many others and also share the photos of others, but always with attribution, which is how one is supposed to do it. When I do my various myco-talks around the country, I want to provide the best possible photos, not just my own work, for my own self-aggrandizement. Sometimes, I find the best photos right here on MO, with its creative commons, share and share alike, w/attribution.

There will always be bad actors, but truly, Ron is not one of ’em.

MO is not Mycoportal or Genbank, it is both social and scientific. There is plenty of wheat here amongst the chaff. One reads dialogue, and philosophies, and data provided, and then makes name suggestions and/or votes a name up or down.

Anyone can play!

This is dialogue, not a Mycologia publication!

When I suggest a name here after reading someone else’s suggestion, I usually cite their work directly, like such and such as per so and so’s remarks below, but I am sure that you could find a few examples where I did not. Even those of us who are careful are not always perfectly scrupulous. It is an unscrupulous world in which we live!

I personally find MO incredibly valuable. But everyone has their biases.

re: I got “pastorinoed”— a new synonym for fake credit
By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2017-05-25 10:02:34 PDT (-0700)

I’d like to assess negative 50 points for taking credit for someone else efforts (a type of fake science), have a way to redress, and ensconce Ron’s epithet as a derogatory gaming term: i.e. “I got pastorinoed!” It’s important to have fun (I’m trying). But one of the concerns I hear from folks who are reticent to use MO, is a parallel problem with having others use and take credit for their work (especially photographs). Honestly, this type of competition may fuel a type of attrition where only the brash and the bullies (albeit geeky bullies) participate, and the more contemplative folks drop out. I sure feel like participating less because of this. Oddly, I imagine in "real life’ folks like Ron are probably very nice…

However, this is not complete — I merely proposed the name (or would have if I hadn’t been pastorinoed) and explained the reasoning/data I was using.

I’m here to share and learn. Also, I would like to award Else 20 point for being helpful!

credit to you Jonathon
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-05-25 08:23:22 PDT (-0700)

but, as some have pointed out, MO is also a game of sorts, and points go to the one who gets there “first.” If that means being better able to work the system, then so be it.

In the big scheme of things, “points” and “first use” are really meaningless, and we are a community that all helps each other. Thanks for your many contributions to the whole. That is what is really important.

Together, we are better. This ID took five long years, and had many participants!

or via index fungorum
By: else
2017-05-25 08:20:18 PDT (-0700)

there is also a direct link from the entry in Index Fungorum to the page in Mycotaxon.

Jonathan, you can acess the description
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2017-05-25 07:50:42 PDT (-0700)

through Cyberliber. It’s in Mycotaxon 55, pp311-312, 1995.

Yes, I made the identification
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2017-05-24 22:29:54 PDT (-0700)

based on an analysis of your comment (-:?
Therefore I get the bonus points for knowing how to add names to MO.

By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2017-05-24 21:32:14 PDT (-0700)

I knew there was a way to do it— I see now you’ve done it —

I guess that makes you “the first to use this name on MO”

except that I used it prior!

Did you propose this identification from your own analysis? Can someone send a copy of the species description…

I added the name.
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2017-05-24 20:47:56 PDT (-0700)

To add names, click on “Index A-Z” from left column.
Then “Add Name” from upper right column.

re: MO doesn’t accept Cortinarius elotoides
By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2017-05-24 19:03:04 PDT (-0700)

Thanks for catching the typo, but MO doesn’t accept Cortinarius elotoides—

when I spell correctly (duh) IF recognizes the name— is there a way to add this described species to MO?

I thought there was a way, but cannot parse…

By: else
2017-05-24 18:44:04 PDT (-0700)

change the a into an o and there is Cortinarius elotoides M.M. Moser, McKnight & Ammirati, described from Wyoming.

DNA matches the type for C. elatoides
By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2017-05-24 18:24:19 PDT (-0700)

ITS DNA matches the type for C. elatoides— but MO & IF do not recognize this taxon—

Anyone familiar with this taxonomic situation?

By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-10-31 07:59:53 PDT (-0700)

Got some? It is super-useful in delimiting cort species. Do spot tests on cap, cap context and stipe context and note any color changes. Also important to taste and smell your cort.

This looks to be one of the bulbopodium with reddish-rusty brown spores. An exact species though…good luck with that! You also need young material and the color of the young gills to make a good in hand ID.

Still, a handsome cort in its own right.

maybe not badiolatus
By: Emma Harrower (eharrower)
2012-10-31 07:48:27 PDT (-0700)

On second inspection, my specimen doesn’t have that abrupt bulb and the stipe is mostly brown. But the cap is brown and the flesh is white like that.

re: Cortinariacs Anonymous
By: Jonathan Frank (jonagus)
2012-10-30 19:26:02 PDT (-0700)

Thanks, I’d be curious to look at the translation. Although I’d rather let you and other Cortinariacs wrestle over the details! I imagine it might not be conspecific. How strong was the match? What was the closest North American match? Is this a case of another yet-to-be-described Cort or of GenBank’s limited (but growing) contents? Perhaps another Cortiphile will clarify…

Cortinarius badiolatus?
By: Emma Harrower (eharrower)
2012-10-30 10:14:22 PDT (-0700)

I collected something similar in BC, whose DNA matched with Cortinarius badiolatus from Europe. I was able to acquire the species description and tried to translate it from German to English. I could send you the translation if you like, to see if it matches.

Created: 2012-10-28 17:35:39 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2017-05-29 15:56:40 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 277 times, last viewed: 2018-02-03 22:40:34 PST (-0800)
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