Observation 117541: Lichen P. Micheli
When: 2012-11-20
(-47.74° -65.96° 20m)
No herbarium specimen

Notes: Substrate: Granite, but in an area with lots of sandstone.

Habitat: arid steppe near Rio Deseado (about <~10km away… near coast, <~20km away from Atlantic.

Frequency: abundant, particularly on flat horizontal exposed faces of granite and sandstone.

Proposed Names

83% (1)
Eye3 Eyes3
Based on chemical features: C-,K-, KC- weird…

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
Omphalodiscus is an old genus
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-11-25 22:15:06 PST (-0800)

Now part of Umbilicaria, I think. But there seem to have been a number in that genus ~30-40 years ago.

Here’s a list of species I don’t recognize from NZ:

U. durietzii
U. grisea
U. murihikuana
U. robusta
U. subaprina
U. subglabra – no mention of pimples (from Oz flora)
U. umbilicarioides – has rhizines (from Oz flora)
U. zahlbruckneri

I’m not finding too much on most of these species.

Hold on! Check out the apothecia(?) in image 286378. Umbilicaria has black apothecia (either gyrose or not, but always black I think). Damn, maybe this really is something totally different.

Damn, I’m still stumped. Grumble… :)

wow you´re amazing Jason
By: nastassja (Nastassja Noell)
2012-11-25 17:45:08 PST (-0800)

Thank you so much… Omphalodiscus … what in the world? Haven´t heard about that species, not to mention there´s nearly nothing on the internet as far as pictures go… exciting! But… where did you find that?! I´m looking in the key to australian macrolichen genera, and… nada… you´re a better digger than I!

Did some searching on Recent Lichen Literature…
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-11-25 15:59:02 PST (-0800)

Include Omphalodiscus in any searches. There are several species reported from Argentina and Antarctica which I don’t recognize. I wonder if we might have any luck looking at NZ or OZ floras? Gotta go for now…

A real stumper…
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-11-25 15:56:12 PST (-0800)

Nearly all the species of Umbilicaria and Lasallia in North America and Europe have gyrophoric acid (often plus other additional substances). But there are a few that don’t, e.g. U. cylindrica and U. rigida (±norstictic acid only). Yours doesn’t look like either of those two species (doesn’t look like any North American species!), but we can’t rule out Umbilicaria based on lack of gyrophoric acid.

Underside :)
By: nastassja (Nastassja Noell)
2012-11-25 14:46:18 PST (-0800)

Typical Umbilicaria underside, rough not not neccessarily tomentose but rough but not plated as far as can be seen with a 20x loupe, brownish, somewhat blackish in areas but no definite color pattern seen on the interior. No psuedocyphellae. No rhizines. No lobules. Definately umbilicate.

Chem tests are odd, right? Double checked C-test on Xanthoria, but perhaps I need to view test under a compound scope. Using a plastic toothpick on medulla tests to be sure I don´t drench specimen in C, but still, no response.

No Dermatocarpons listed in Argentine or Australian list. Australian key for Umbilicaria points to U. decussata but that one is lacking the almost postulate laminal soralia – none with this feature are listed in the key unless I´m missing something big… which is always possible, but I´m not finding it.

Bizzare right? This one has such distinctive features on the upper cortex, including abundant apothecia in many of the specimens. Exciting, this form is all over, in crevices, on exposed rock surfaces, etc.

Uh oh!
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-11-24 21:26:11 PST (-0800)

C- KC- makes Umbilicaria somewhat less likely! How well did the specimen survive? Can you say anything about the underside? Rhizines? Tomentum?

This bird is definately caught in a mist net!
By: nastassja (Nastassja Noell)
2012-11-23 07:30:53 PST (-0800)

Growth pattern is totally Umbilicariaceae like, umbilicate holdfast, rock substrate… and since my specimens are mangled in a pile of 14 other classmates at a bus station here somewhere in Santa Cruz province, I have no way of getting it out to check, yet, just tried :) So I thought I´d just do a preliminary scan of whats in CNALH for Umbilicariaceae down near Puerto Deseado within 100 mile radias and… nada. Todo nada. Only one lichen specimen in CNALH for 200 mile radius from Puerto Deseado — UMichigans sample of Ramalina terebrata.

I´ll find out what is going on with that underside soon enough… :) Thanks for your help Jason!

Aha! Caught you!
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-11-21 15:47:25 PST (-0800)

Yeah, you’ve gotta be especially careful in unfamiliar places, don’t you?? I agree 100% this looks like no Umbilicaria I’ve ever seen, but the growth pattern is clearly the same (growing from the center, not the margin). Unique to Umbilicaria and Lasallia so far as I know.

By: nastassja (Nastassja Noell)
2012-11-21 13:45:34 PST (-0800)

Umbilicaria?! The climate and substrate would certainly fit much better with Umbilicaria, but that pattern on the upper cortex reminds me so much of Psuedocyphellaria — so much so that I didn´t even check the underside! :) Observer´s bias… [[blush]] :) I´ve got a sample back at the camp…

This looks more like Umbilicaria
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2012-11-21 13:18:20 PST (-0800)

Did you see tomentum and pseudocyphellae “bumps” on the lower surface??

Created: 2012-11-21 12:37:06 PST (-0800)
Last modified: 2012-11-25 14:55:56 PST (-0800)
Viewed: 97 times, last viewed: 2017-06-14 08:45:24 PDT (-0700)
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