Observation 128841: Cortinarius crassus Fr.
When: 2012-09-11
No herbarium specimen

Proposed Names

86% (1)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight: C. crassus Fr. ss. Lange non Fr. with dusty odor
27% (1)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-18 10:59:48 CST (-0500)

My former suggestion C. crassus ss. Lange is wrong. I looked up my scarce notes and it is not this it is C. pseudocrassus, which is the correct name for what has been called C. crassus ss. orig. … I hope I am right. I am confused by now :)
All my finds of which I talked earlier are this same mushroom (except one from 2003 without photo who smelt like dust which is crassus ss.Lange) which I have listed in my database as Cortinarius pseudocrassus. All these finds have no odor. Sorry for messing up.

Wait a minute
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-02-18 10:45:24 CST (-0500)

I don’t understand, so you have to explain how Cortinarius crassus Fr. sensu Fries can become Cortinarius pseudocrassus Joss. ex P.D. Orton..

Index Fungorum says that preudocrassus is a synonym and uses crassus as the current name.

Once again
By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-18 07:51:39 CST (-0500)

I blame it on the taxonomists. I went through my notes and what I mean here is not crassus ss. Lange but crassus ss. Fries which now is re-named CORTINARIUS PSEUDOCRASSUS Josserand ex Orton after Bidaud et al. and Kuyper in Arnolds et al.. but this would mean it has no smell. Now I am totally confused but I have no notes about the possible smell. As said I just took photos in the wood and the name and did not care more about it since this forays in France are from and for Corticiologists with occasional participations of Agaricists or people with a broad overall approach. Usually it is not very well received to deal with agarics at this meeting :) I do not think it is balteatoalbus (=crassus ss. Lange et al.) after consulting my literature. But the people who ID’d surely would have known C. pseudovulpinus for they are into Cortinarius.
Question remaining is: what is CORTINARIUS CRASSUS ss. auct. gall. ??? I cannot find that out.

Well then
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-02-18 03:12:44 CST (-0500)

I don’t know of any particular smell on crassus or balteatoalbus,
but pseudovulpinus is supposed to have an unpleasant smell, earthy or like old camember cheese (have never found it myself) and grows on calcareous ground with Carpinus or Corylus. The dry cap and rich, browning veil is a match too..

As said above,
By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-17 15:02:28 CST (-0500)

I haven’t determined this by myself I just took the photos and they told me the ID. But it is the same that I find under this name in Austria. I just came to find C. vulpinus last year, no idea about pseudovulpinus.
Habitat is fraudulous. It is a mixed forest with spruce (mostly planted long ago), fir, beech, pine, oak, birch, a total mix … soil I guess is calcareous but acidified.

By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-02-17 14:56:34 CST (-0500)

The habitat doesn’t look right, so maybe you have ruled out C. pseudovulpinus..?

By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-17 14:44:43 CST (-0500)

those taxonomists! ;)

At least the fungus stays the same no matter how they call it …

Good question
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-02-17 14:39:23 CST (-0500)

but I have understood it the other way around – that C. pseudocrassus is a synonym of crassus. That was at least Moser’s opinion, and I don’t know if others have changed it lately.

That looks quite good.
By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-17 12:58:05 CST (-0500)

But which mushroom is still called Cortinarius crassus today?
If crassus ss.Lange is balteatoalbus and crassus ss. orig. is pseudocrassus, so what is crassus?

If I’m not mistaken
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-02-17 11:45:32 CST (-0500)

Cortinarius crassus ss Lange is the same as Cortinarius balteatoalbus (at least according to Index Fungorum).
It does look similar to your obs – though it is supposed to have a white veil – but sometimes with brownish tufts and fibrils on cap and stem..?

Here’s one french interpretation of balteatoalbus:

I’m not quite convinced yet :-)

Do as you like.
By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-17 11:12:42 CST (-0500)

Next November I will be in France again. Maybe the mycologists who determined this will be there again but I do not think so. They are from Alsace and we will be near Marseille next time.
But I have posted or will more of this exact same Cortinarius from Austria and everyone has confirmed this ID up to now who has a say with this genus.
I would love to get things cleared up in Cortinarius taxonomy-wise. It is a real nuisance sometimes. E.g. the group around turmalis/sebaceus/multiformis/claricolor/corruscans which always leaves me puzzled in regard to choose a right name.

By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-02-17 11:01:30 CST (-0500)

I’m willing to bet that this belongs in sect. Triumphantes. I’ll keep searching for a better name :-)

By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-17 10:51:08 CST (-0500)

This is Cortinarius crassus Fries sensu Lange non Fries.
The “true” Cortinarius crassus Fries is now named Cortinarius pseudocrassus.
At least so did I get it.

By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2013-02-17 10:45:29 CST (-0500)

so it may not be saginus then, but you can’t use the name Cortinarius crassus Fr., because this isn’t it! I need to try some research on this..

By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-02-17 10:18:45 CST (-0500)

this was found during a meeting and I did not ID it. The people who did are familiar with Cortinarius. It has this dusty smell and is completely dry overall. This is what also has been called pseudocrassus by some if I am right. I do know Cortinarius saginus and have even eaten it. It never has this smell.

Created: 2013-02-17 09:36:10 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2013-02-18 03:13:35 CST (-0500)
Viewed: 177 times, last viewed: 2016-10-27 20:13:00 CDT (-0400)
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