Observation 130154: Panaeolus papilionaceus (Bull.) Quél.
When: 2013-03-12

Notes: This was growing in old dung.

Proposed Names

-61% (3)
Recognized by sight: The light color and obtuse angles of the cap and ratio of stem thickness to cap size suggest Panaeolus antillarum. The west coast version has a darker stem than is usual in the south. See observation 93380 and 44030.
18% (3)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
By: Thomas Laxton (Tao)
2013-03-21 00:42:36 EDT (-0400)

That could be possible. I’ll contact you to make the arrangements.

By: Byrain
2013-03-21 00:20:15 EDT (-0400)

The pitting on the caps and size are environmental, its been rather dry in CA lately and that can account for those. Both var. papilionaceus and var. parvisporus are Panaeolus papilionaceus. The two varieties are only separated because of the veil which is a relatively plastic feature and the spore size. I see you added specimens for some of these P. papilionaceus observations, I can scope them when I have some time if you send them to me?

Probably not var. papilionaceus
By: Thomas Laxton (Tao)
2013-03-21 00:10:45 EDT (-0400)

I have been searching images on line and I’m pretty sure this is not Panaeolus papilionaceus var. papilionaceus because they don’t look like these images:
These caps do not have the pitting that I see in my specimens.
Also neither of my specimens were larger than one inch tall so far. That could be as tall as this gets seeing that the aged one was as tall as the fresh one.

By: Byrain
2013-03-19 00:43:35 EDT (-0400)

examples of P. retirugis look more like P. semiovatus which I am doubtful your find is. Expect to find a lot of misidentified Panaeolus photos online, especially those without microscopy. This could include some of my older observations, I plan to scope the ones I still have in time get better names on them…

You could be right
By: Thomas Laxton (Tao)
2013-03-18 08:28:17 EDT (-0400)

But so far that image is the only reference that resembles these specimens that I’ve seen.

Why not?
By: Byrain
2013-03-18 01:25:18 EDT (-0400)

var. papilionaceus? With that non-fugaceous veil I think the argument for that variety is stronger, that one is more common according to Gerhardt too. I think darv’s mushroom could possibly be var. papilionaceus.

Not a fluke
By: Thomas Laxton (Tao)
2013-03-18 01:15:07 EDT (-0400)
I thought that the first specimen was a fluke how it looked like this image: http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/3299?obs=2553&q=18aYT The second specimen looks the same as first just not as aged. I know they will need to be studied under microscopy to be sure, but from what I have collected so far I believe this could be Panaeolus papilionaceus var. parvisporus.
5 days
By: Thomas Laxton (Tao)
2013-03-17 23:39:00 EDT (-0400)

It’s been five days and I went back to the same spot. I have updated the images with the fresh specimen I found.

By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-03-13 21:42:15 EDT (-0400)

but isn’t var. parvisporus then in that group?
that’s what i meant and that’s what i think it could be.

By: Byrain
2013-03-13 21:39:47 EDT (-0400)

I’m not sure what you mean? Doesn’t Panaeolus papilionaceus encompass both varieties? To me adding group implies other species.

variety name…?
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-03-13 21:36:38 EDT (-0400)

i don’t get that.
a generic name maybe, encompassing the two variations is what i was getting at.

var. papilionaceus vs. var. parvisporus
By: Byrain
2013-03-13 21:34:51 EDT (-0400)

From gerhardt’s key:

“3 Spores about 15-18 μm long; cap distinctly appendiculate
Panaeolus papilionaceus var. papilionaceus (12)
- Spores about 13-16 μm long; cap indistinctly appendiculate, veil very fugaceous
Panaeolus papilionaceus var. parvisporus (13)”

The veil is not very fugaceous so I would lean towards var. papilionaceus, but with only a single specimen & without microscopy I prefer not using a variety name :)

Other species in sect. Panaeolus include P. venezolanus with an annulus & P. rubricaulis with a distinctly hygrophanous cap, sulphidia, and known from se asia (But maybe in other sub-tropical to tropical places?)

looks like var. parvisporus…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-03-13 20:54:54 EDT (-0400)
I would suggest
By: Byrain
2013-03-13 20:45:13 EDT (-0400)

Panaeolus sect. Panaeolus over Panaeolus papilionaceus group. :)

Some more probable examples…
By: Byrain
2013-03-13 12:51:10 EDT (-0400)
Not Panaeolus antillarum
By: Byrain
2013-03-13 11:07:09 EDT (-0400)

with a very clear veil.

Created: 2013-03-13 00:31:44 EDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2013-04-07 01:16:05 EDT (-0400)
Viewed: 204 times, last viewed: 2016-10-28 17:42:43 EDT (-0400)
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