Observation 132740: Agrocybe elatella (P. Karst.) Vesterh.
When: 2013-04-30

Notes: Small statured, Fragile, Yellow Pileus 1-3cm, Stipe paler, persistant annular veil.

Proposed Names

31% (3)
Recognized by sight
1% (6)
Recognized by sight: In grass, with annulus, medium size
41% (3)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight: A guess, small cap, slender stipe, possible ascending annulus

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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i will look…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-08 01:01:37 CDT (-0400)

more tomorrow…
i’m tired and need a beer…

well
By: Byrain
2013-05-08 00:56:06 CDT (-0400)

if they are in that size range, the size agrees much more with A. elatella than A. praecox.

And yea, I understand about the difficulties in locating cystidia, I had a similar issue with observation 116193.

cheilocystidia size…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-08 00:46:20 CDT (-0400)

14.5 × 6.7...
i am having a very hard time locating cystidia Byrain…
no basidia as far as i can see…

Cheilocystidia
By: Byrain
2013-05-08 00:42:19 CDT (-0400)

How big is it? I’m not quite sure which species it matches from just that one image, it would help to see several of them, it also looks more capitate then either of them…

Maybe I’m just tired
By: Rocky Houghtby
2013-05-08 00:35:39 CDT (-0400)

But I could not make sense of the gill edge descriptions when I read them, Thanks for explaining that!

It seems like the gill edges in the two species are radically different. The illustrations in fan6 should be particularly useful here.

A. elatella vs. A. praecox
By: Byrain
2013-05-08 00:32:03 CDT (-0400)

A. elatella will have “Lamella edge sterile, composed of predominantly clavate cheilocystidia of 10–20 × 6.5–11 μm intermixed with lageniform to utriform cheilocystidia of 35–40 μm long”

A. praecox will have “Lamella edge heterogeneous, composed of basidia intermixed with usually utriform cheilocystidia of 35–65 μm long”

I understand this to mean that A. elatella won’t have basidia on the gill edge while A. preacox does. Macroscopically A. elatella should be smaller and with an ascending ring, and A. praecox will be larger with a descending ring. Rocky had a good point about the condition of the annulus though.

cheilocystidia…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-08 00:31:07 CDT (-0400)

ok…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-08 00:23:25 CDT (-0400)

give me a minute…
i haven’t seen any basidia…
i will try another specimen.

bloodworm
By: Byrain
2013-05-08 00:20:54 CDT (-0400)

try a smaller section and crush it better, cheilocystidia is important, sometimes it can be hard to find even when it is important. If I am wrong and that is cheilocystidia, then we can only see the apex and its very different from both A. praecox and A. elatella (And perhaps all the other Agrocybe in fan6). Did you see any basidia on the gill edge?

Edit: Also thanks for the germ pore data, that makes either A. praecox or A. elatella sound more promising. :)

germ pore size…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-08 00:18:45 CDT (-0400)

is about 1.8…

Byrain…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-08 00:09:12 CDT (-0400)

that is all i can see after about 4 cross sections as far as cheilo goes…

ill post the pore measurements in a minute.

both cheilo and pleuro seem to be extremely rare and unimportant…

Fair enough
By: Rocky Houghtby
2013-05-08 00:08:04 CDT (-0400)

Just because the spore size habit and habitat key out in fan6 doesn’t mean it’s only one of two species. God alone knows how many species of Agrocybe exist in NA.

Cheilocystidia
By: Byrain
2013-05-08 00:03:40 CDT (-0400)

That is not cheilocystidia and you still need the germ pore width in case its neither of the two choices….

Germ pore
By: Rocky Houghtby
2013-05-08 00:00:20 CDT (-0400)

Should be the same for these two species. Maybe he could check for clamp connections in the annulus tissue? Seems like they are abundant in A. elatella and scarce in A. praecox…

More info needed….
By: Byrain
2013-05-07 23:55:44 CDT (-0400)

How wide is the germ pore? Do you have full resolution spore pictures available? You really need cheilocystidia in addition to pleurocystidia. Also it would be good to check the cap structure and also if pileocystidia is present.

The pleurocsytidia and spore size could fit Agrocybe elatella, but I need more info before I would seriously consider that name. Like Bloodworm says, the spores are too small for A. dura, also the pleurocystidia shape doesn’t match that well.

Edit: Also, this species seems a bit small for A. praecox, it would be good to check if the lamella edge is sterile or heterogeneous. Cheilocystidia shape and size also seems like it could be useful.

Hmmm
By: Rocky Houghtby
2013-05-07 23:51:40 CDT (-0400)
A. praecox and A. elatella are ridiculously similar. This is definitely one of the two species though. Im not sure we can rely on the annulus in this particular observation due to the condition of the specimens. We can, however, rule out A. elatella by looking for more cystidia and recording shape ,size and abundance.

A praecox will have narrowly utriform, sometimes fusiform to cylindrical cheilocystidia

A elatella will have clavate and lageniform to utriform cheilocystidia

Dave…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-07 23:48:27 CDT (-0400)

the spores are far too small for A. molesta/dura

micro…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2013-05-07 23:17:48 CDT (-0400)

spores = 9.1 × 6.4
8.1 – 9.7 × 5.7 – 6.9

400x

oil

pleurocystidia

Created: 2013-04-30 22:14:31 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2013-05-08 01:01:07 CDT (-0400)
Viewed: 305 times, last viewed: 2017-01-16 13:48:42 CST (-0500)
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