Observation 134426: Amanita cylindrispora Beardslee
When: 2013-05-24

Notes: I can’t really comfortably put this into a section of the genus due to the (what appears to be) elongating stipe. Perhaps the bulb is just greatly reduced at maturity. Must be section Phalloideae?

Proposed Names

27% (1)
Eye3
Recognized by sight: skirt-like annulus, red staining on test tube-like saccate volva, striate cap margin
6% (2)
Recognized by sight: Short striate cap margin, saclike volva, color.

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

Add Comment
No problem,
By: groundhog
2013-07-11 16:57:33 CEST (+0200)

This material has been accessioned into Rod’s herbarium.
Naomi

Hi Naomi,
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-07-11 03:27:27 CEST (+0200)

you are correct again. This observation matches that specimen. Thanks for your patience.

Hi Josh,
By: groundhog
2013-07-10 18:25:54 CEST (+0200)

Is this another one that you sent us? envelope labeled “Amanita cylindrispora? (did not dry well sadly)”
thanks,
Naomi (working with RET)

Good going, Josh.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-31 17:16:33 CEST (+0200)

R

It appears
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-05-31 16:23:29 CEST (+0200)

that I will be able to get volume 5 of Persoonia which includes Bas’ paper without having to purchase any other issues. I’m excited to get my hands on it! Regarding the microscope, I do not have it yet. I am still trying to track down a used one that isn’t terrible, but isn’t too pricey. It’s not easy!

thanks for your timely efforts.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-05-29 17:33:46 CEST (+0200)

I look forward to reading it.

I had to radically compress the PDF, but it’s on-line and legible.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-29 17:24:24 CEST (+0200)

I think a lot of people missed this paper.

R

Subsection Limbatulae
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-29 17:04:59 CEST (+0200)

http://www.amanitaceae.org?subsection+Limbatulae

is a good place to start. It lists 16 species for the world including one from California. Maybe there are more of them in California.

Most of the species are from the SE U.S.A. and SW Australia…places that, among other things, lose rain rapidly in sandy soils. In both the regions, it is not only the species of subsect. Limbatulae that have evolved narrow spores. Narrow spores seem to be an adaptation associated with relatively hostile places…somewhere from which it is a good idea to get away. Elongate spores tumble when falling and stay aloft longer than the larger globose spores. The smaller globose amanita spores seem to be adapted to riding air currents around vertical obstructions (e.g., trees).

I’ll see if we can’t get the PDF of the 2005 paper in a more obvious place on-line. Thanks for that suggestion. The simplest thing to do is to have the PDF available from the end of the bibliographical entry to which all the “(Tulloss, 2005b)” entries (are supposed to) link. I hope.

R

Rod…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-05-29 16:28:39 CEST (+0200)

I noticed on your A. cylindrispora webpage your reference to a paper of yours on spore shape and “leaky” habitats from 2005.

Could you link to a pdf somewhere? I (and perhaps others, too) would be curious to read it.

Also just curious: how many NA species of the Limbatulae are there, and what is their distribution? I know that CA was at least formerly an epicenter…;)

oooooo, you have a scope?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-05-29 16:23:02 CEST (+0200)

wouldja put up micrographs of these spores?

I’m bettin’ that they are cylindrical…

another way…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-05-29 16:20:05 CEST (+0200)

to get your hands on a copy, temporarily, is to use Interlibrary Loan. Even if your library doesn’t currently have copies of Persoonia, it can easily be brought in for you from elsewhere. Just another fine service provided by our public libraries!

Thanks again
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-05-29 03:51:02 CEST (+0200)

to both of you. Between studying the literature and obtaining/using a microscope for the wet season, please understand that my girlfriend may show up at your door with a torch and/or pitchfork!

Josh (EDIT)
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-29 03:16:36 CEST (+0200)

I suggest that you cite what you want precisely:

Bas, C. 1969. Morphology and subdivision of Amanita and a monograph of its section Lepidella. Persoonia 5: 285-579.

Explain that you are not a library and are not associated with one and want the books for your personal education and research.

If they want you to buy the whole year, tell them you’re willing to buy the set of copies in which Bas published his papers on Amanita. You can get the list here:

http://www.amanitaceae.org?bibliography

Remember to include the Corner and Bas 1962 article with the beautiful watercolors by E. J. H. Corner of amanita from Singapore and Malaya.

Then they’ll get a little more money and you’ll get the stuff closest to your current area of interest in Amanita.

If they continue to hassle you, ask them when they’re going to put Bas’ works on-line.

If you still have a problem, let me know.

R

Yikes!
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-05-29 02:54:28 CEST (+0200)

That information is disheartening considering my desire to acquire the issue(s) with Bas’ monograph. Did you essentially have to pay for that whole year’s worth of journals? Did you contact Persoonia afterward about the poor condition? I am going to get in touch with them at the email provided to see what I can find out about getting my hands on the issue or two with Bas’ work.

Beware buying old journals from Persoonia…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-05-28 20:20:42 CEST (+0200)

they would not sell me the single issue with Bas’ Monograph on Lepidella, but insisted that I buy a whole slew of back issues that all arrived damaged. Plus, the issues were old and in poor shape and the pages yellowed and brittle. For $120 at the time (several years back) it was no bargain.

Wonderful.
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-05-25 19:58:43 CEST (+0200)

Thanks!

You need your own copy.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-25 19:43:18 CEST (+0200)

It’s not expensive, but you’ll need to pay to have it bound.

I think you should be able to find out how to buy the book (really two issues of the journal Persoonia bound together) from the Persoonia website.

Very best,

Rod

The introduction to Bas’ thesis is online here:
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-25 19:39:09 CEST (+0200)

www.amanitaceae.org/content/uploaded/pdf/Bas1969intro-opt.pdf

Rod

That
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-05-25 19:31:30 CEST (+0200)

was absolutely beautiful. Powerful words. Do you know of a library here in Florida that would carry Bas’ monograph? The closest place I could find it after a brief search was on interlibrary loan from Chicago through the University of Florida.

I’m not sure what to say about the organism’s history… EDITED
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-25 18:56:07 CEST (+0200)

…I guess we’ll have to wait for more science to be done. The history of human understanding of the organism is fascinating. Unfortunately (or, perhaps, fortunately), it shows a weak side of the study of Amanita. There were long gaps in the study of the genus, and amanitology looked like personal opinion rather than science for long stretches of time. To really comprehend what Bas did, it’s important to realize that he had a clear concept of scientific method, clearly segregated hypotheses from data, spent a great effort on developing methodology, and worked toward a consistent presentation of data on an extended set of characters. When I first read Dr. Bas’ thesis, I experienced a revolution. This was science. In comparison, other monographs that I had read previously were not in the same class. When Dr. Bas passed away earlier this year, he was acclaimed as the founder of the “Dutch School” of mycology.

Over the more than 30 years that have passed since I first read Bas’ monograph, I have been more and more aware of the incredible necessity of methodology in morphological taxonomy of the genus. In 2011, I was asked to give a lecture in China on writing about Amanita. In part I turned it into a methodological history since Bas…you have to gather data and analyze it before you can write. This was my excuse. I was astonished to find how long it has taken to see Bas’ advances become common practice in studying and describing species of Amanita. Things like measuring spores in a consistent way, reporting ranges in a meaningful and consistent way, and others took decades to make an impact. There was even a significant period of backsliding when people writing on Amanita seemed to forget the importance of the unique developmental process of the Amanita fruiting body and started calling the lamella gill edge structures cystidia (in violation also of the definition of cystidia).

I can’t redeliver the lecture on MO. But my point is that mycological science is starved for taxonomists, we seem to have very selective (or no) “corporate memory.” This is a heck of a limitation for a science. Only a dedicated website and published literature to back it up in a technologically fluid future are reasonable methods of recording the knowledge. But what does that mean if we don’t recruit new workers who will absorb the history and the method and take them forward in time?

Do I worry about it? Quite a bit.

Very best,

Rod

I do
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-05-25 17:55:27 CEST (+0200)

have to say that this specimen was only buried to about 1/3 of its length in the sand.

Section
By: Josh M.K. (suchen)
2013-05-25 17:53:07 CEST (+0200)

Lepidella?! Would never have guessed. The history of this taxon is fascinating, and pretty much follows my own thought process on trying to identify it. You are welcome to use any of my photos on the WAO site. Unfortunately I was at work when I found this one, so had to settle for a cell phone camera. I do have this specimen mostly dried at this point, though it has a slightly unpleasant odor which means it probably hasn’t dried out very well. I will dry it more and pack it with the other stuff I have been delinquent in sending out.

Thanks everyone!

In all the rush of seeing this species on MO,
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-25 16:05:40 CEST (+0200)

I forgot to ask Josh whether he would be willing to send me all our part of the dried material and permit me (I know it’s not necessary to ask, but I’m old-fashioned) to use his photo on WAO.

Very best,

Rod

I agree about the identifiability. (EDIT)
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-25 16:01:55 CEST (+0200)

The decision of where this species should be placed was influenced over the years by several things. First, it was assumed that elongate spores were a special character of Amidella. This characterization began among European mycologists considering placement of the sister species A. gilbertii. Jenkins followed the concept in the U.S. Since there are species with cylindric spores in sections Phalloideae and Lepidella in the SE U.S. and the appendiculate nature of the cap margin in cylindrispora is obscure and fleeting, I submitted material of cylindrispora to Dr. Heather Hallen when she was beginning her work on phylogenetics of, and toxins in, the Phalloideae. The answer came back very clearly: 1) Yes, cylindrispora and gilbertii are sister taxa; however, (2) they contain no amatoxins and appear not to fall into the Phalloideae phylogenetically. That was enough for me to go looking for a home for cylindrispora in sect. Lepidella. The natural place for a species with limbate volva and very narrow spores was in subsect. Limbatulae. The recent work (largely focused on sect. Lepidella) of Dr. Ben Wolfe et al. confirmed placement of the two sisters in sect. Lepidella. This is the way the species are now treated on WAO.

Rod

Even if I had correctly interpreted…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2013-05-25 14:27:22 CEST (+0200)

the basal structure, I think sect. Lepidella is one of the last places I would look for this one! Seems like an easily field-identifiable species once one knows it; pretty unique.

Forgot to mention…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-25 05:57:45 CEST (+0200)

That is a true bulb with a limbate volva on it.

R

I think that this species will have amyloid spores. EDIT
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-05-25 05:56:01 CEST (+0200)

This looks to me very much like A. cylindrispora. It is a species of Amanita subsection Limbatulae Bas and is adapted to pine-oak forest in the Atlantic coastal plain. It is rather commonly found in some sites in the NJ Pine Barrens, although I have not collected it in recent years. It was originally described from Florida. It has very, very narrow spores. The cap margin bears [edit] minute appendiculate pieces of universal veil when it is very fresh. A great deal of the stipe is usually buried in the substrate.

It has been placed in sections Amidella and Phalloideae (briefly) in the past. It does not contain amatoxins (unpublished data of Dr. Heather Hallen) and is morphologically(RET) and genetically (Dr. Ben Wolfe et al.) close to A. gilbertii of Europe. In North America, it seems to be one of a kind and rather easy to recognize in the field because of its habit and deep insertion in the substrate (usually sandy soil).

Very best,

Rod

Created: 2013-05-25 00:07:03 CEST (+0200)
Last modified: 2013-05-25 05:57:00 CEST (+0200)
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