Observation 135947: Amanita “sp-MO03”
When: 2013-06-09
(38.5261° 38.5261° )
Herbarium specimen reported

Proposed Names

ret
94% (3)
Eye3 Eyes3
Based on chemical features: This species was “discovered” as different through DNA sequencing. Dr. Karen Hughes is to be thanked for arranging the effort to produce the sequences involved.
-28% (1)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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It would be great to test your ridge’s “flavoconia.”
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-05-29 22:37:36 CDT (-0400)

It’s very interesting to see this growing group of possible connections.

Very best,

Rod

I hunt an oak/hickory ridge…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-05-29 20:23:11 CDT (-0400)

primarily for chanterelles and boletes; south-facing, sparse scattering of pines and hemlock. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen “flavoconia” there.

Habitat
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2015-05-29 13:38:09 CDT (-0400)

A stony & mossy south-facing ridge, with hardwoods — oak and hickory primarily, a few ash around there. No conifers that I remember — about all we have are some scattered pine trees, but I do not recall any there. Oh, we also have eastern red juniper in some places, but again I don’t think there were any there.

Patrick, do you remember…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-05-28 23:12:33 CDT (-0400)

any details about habitat? Much of what I ID as flavoconia here in NE NA seems to associate with hemlock.

At present, I simply don’t know.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-05-28 18:09:56 CDT (-0400)

Very best,

Rod

I wonder what readily observable trait(s)…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-05-28 16:14:17 CDT (-0400)

may separate this from flavoconia? Every summer I see hundreds of what I pigeon-hole as flavoconia (or elongata). Maybe some specialized habitat?

Especially because David W. expressed surprise….
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-05-28 15:58:40 CDT (-0400)

I didn’t remember all the details of the comparison of genes between the 110435 material and the material of the present observation. It had been a while since I had gone over all the data on both of the collections. We have nrLSU and nrITS (“proposed fungal barcode”) sequences for both collections. If the taxa are the same in both observations, there should be a strong similarity in the nrLSU sequences; and one might see some difference between the “barcode” genes. We’ve seen significant differences within a species (discussed previously on MO) in the barcode gene.

In the case of sp-MO03, there is no difference between our two nrITS sequences; and there is no difference between our two nrLSU sequences. All else being equal, that’s fairly good support for the hypothesis that the two collections both represent the same species.

Very best,

Rod

Unfortunately, slight pink staining (especially in the interior of the stem)…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-05-28 15:24:55 CDT (-0400)

can happen in the flavoconia group. I’ve seen it in material that I would call flavoconia based on macromorphology. I’ve also seen it in the Central American taxon, flavoconia var. inquinata.

At this point we know much more about the world taxa that have been referred to rubescens than we know of the taxa referred to flavoconia and flavipes and their ilk.

Very best,

Rod

Nice find.
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2015-05-28 14:35:55 CDT (-0400)

I suppose morphologically the slight pink staining would place it outside the A. flavoconia group?

Imagine the outer part of the cap graying significantly…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-05-28 13:50:19 CDT (-0400)

in 110435. It is quite possible that neither set of photographs is typical of mature material collected at maturity. We only have these two sets of photos. There is a lot of opportunity to learn more. Certainly the volva and partial veils are yellow at first. Because of the mention of yellow fibrils (snake skin pattern ) above the partial veil in one of the postings, I imagine the edge cells on the lamellae are probably yellow. I don’t know what to expect next.

Very best,

Rod

This doesn’t even look like…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-05-28 13:03:37 CDT (-0400)
I will look for more
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2015-05-28 11:40:04 CDT (-0400)

Tht’s wonderful! I will check this hillside more this year, and see if I can find them again.

— Patrick

Thanks again, Patrick.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-05-28 11:16:40 CDT (-0400)

This one is worth watching for again. So far it’s known from mushroomobserver posts only (Indiana and Missouri).

Thanks for sending the material along to us.

Very best,

Rod

With more data accumulating…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-05-28 11:07:59 CDT (-0400)

We’ve found that this species has an nrLSU gene identical to that of the species of MO observation 110435.

No existing name or code applies. We’ll have to create a new one.

Here it is: Amanitasp-MO03.”

We’ll try to get a new page up on the WAO site using photos from the two MO postings.

Very best,

Rod

Learning
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2014-02-01 10:12:14 CST (-0500)

If I’m learning anything here, it is that identification is sometimes not just a matter of looking at it.

Thanks for you help,
Patrick

We have received a larger number of Amanita sequences and have changed our mind.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-01-31 17:04:44 CST (-0500)

Hello, Patrick.

We have a lot of new evidence that is changing the picture of where this specimen may belong in terms of relationships within sect. Validae. As far as the barcode gene goes, this appears to be close to, but not identical to a number of North American species such as Amanita sp-36 and Amanita augusta.

Very best,

Rod

We received barcode and LSU sequences for this material.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-01-08 11:09:18 CST (-0500)

(Thank you, Dr. Hughes.)

It is pretty clear that the material belongs to A. flavoconia morphologically (colors and, particularly, the shape of the bulb). Also it is flavoconia if we can rely on an nrLSU sequence and a barcode (nrITS) sequence deposited in GenBank and reported to be from flavoconia. There are mistakes in GenBank; so I don’t think the genetic argument makes the ID a certainty.

Thanks for the material, Patrick.

Very best,

Rod

Thank you, Patrick.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-06-23 17:07:07 CDT (-0400)

This material has been received and will be scheduled for sampling.

Very best,

Rod

I suggest that flavoconia is another possibility.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-06-10 09:29:00 CDT (-0400)

It’s nice to see your mushroom season is under way.

Very best,

Rod

Created: 2013-06-09 19:18:19 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2015-05-28 14:30:50 CDT (-0400)
Viewed: 317 times, last viewed: 2016-12-03 15:48:30 CST (-0500)
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