Observation 139336: Leucocoprinus birnbaumii (Corda) Singer
When: 2013-07-09
No herbarium specimen

Notes: Under oaks in leaf litter
bruised brown.

Proposed Names

28% (1)
Recognized by sight
43% (6)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight: Unexpanded cap does not yet show striations.
28% (1)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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Unfortunately
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-07-11 20:23:07 CEST (+0200)

given the immaturity of the spores, microscopy can’t give us much clarity here.

It could, I guess, be L. straminellus (although that species is reportedly usually paler), in which case microscopy of a more mature specimen could help.

It is way too robust for L. fragilissimus.

It isn’t staining blue, so that eliminates at least one or two other yellow Lepiotoids.

Spore microscopy
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-07-11 20:19:31 CEST (+0200)

would go a long way to proving or disproving any suggested species.

special conditions
By: Justin (Tmethyl)
2013-07-11 20:14:20 CEST (+0200)

This was found in a large oak stand at the edge of a large pasture.
Other than more wind than normal due to the wide open space I can think of no special conditions. No water nearby. Some cow dung and urine was present.

Would microscopy help? I did collect.

Yes, let’s.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-07-11 20:08:16 CEST (+0200)

Justin: any special conditions we should be aware of? Something causing elevated CO2 for example? Nearby swamp?

Let’s stay with the observation at hand
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-07-11 20:02:30 CEST (+0200)
You may be right, Christian.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-07-11 19:52:35 CEST (+0200)

They may be natural variations.

Or separate species.

Don’t miss the trees for the forest. As a truffle hunter, it’s very important to know what tree species you are hunting under. Or with. Oregon White truffles (Tuber gibbosum) were first found in California in a mixed stand of conifers and hardwoods. No thought was given to what trees were present.

Today we know a little more. Looking for Oregon White truffles under oaks is pointless and counterproductive. You might find other truffles, but never T. gibbosum. Even today, T. quercols is found with oaks. Other Tuber species is always a possibility as well. More Tuber species are found with Pinus than with Quercus in the US.

I think you just have very different ideas
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-07-11 17:54:55 CEST (+0200)

about what possible variations are included in the range of normal fruitbody development.

Don’t miss the forest for the trees.

So let’s review why I question this.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-07-11 17:03:58 CEST (+0200)

The color: dull greenish-yellow. Arora’s description allows for this, but the photos disagree.

The cap: with scattered plate-like scales, not dandruffy and more clustered near the cap apex.

The staining: brown. Not included in description.

The size: 10.75cm vs. 3-10cm stipe length. Various opinions have been expressed for this variation: rain, abundant substrate. Those haven’t occurred before?

Honestly, Daniel…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2013-07-11 03:57:36 CEST (+0200)

I don’t get the “as if.” It’s not like I called this thing “Ganoderma” :-)

Look at the one pic in Kuo’s presentation of L. birnbaumii.
http://mushroomexpert.com/leucocoprinus_birnbaumii.html

Until the cap expands, dense scales prevent one from seeing any hint of striations.

The only time I have ever visited Florida was years back during July. I recall seeing L. birnbaumii growing in a mulched garden. It was larger than the examples which one typically sees in flower pots. Habitat matters. And saprobes can be quite adaptable.

Arora
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-07-11 03:37:52 CEST (+0200)

Did you read Arora’s description?

He mentions a stipe up to 10 cm tall, cap to 6 cm wide….
He also says striate at maturity.
And this specimen is bright yellow…

Size is influenced by rainfall – I hear FL has been getting LOTS.

The lack of striations in a young fruitbody like this is easily explained: particularly turgid specimens don’t show striations until the cap expands and the surface tissue collapses into the spaces between the gills (that’s what striations/sulcations are)… Dave W mentioned this in his proposal of L brinbaumii, which I don’t think is unreasonable.

Unconvinced.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-07-11 02:53:59 CEST (+0200)

In Arora under Lepiota lutea (a former name for Leucocoprinus birmbaumii) I find a picture for Lepiota lutea and a description which does not match this obs.: “The bright yellow color and striate cap set apart L. lutea from other Lepiotas.” (Color photo 70.)

Perhaps it is another Leucocoprinus as Christian has now suggested. Justin says the obs. was 4.25" tall or 10.75cm, a giant for Leucocoprinus. Maybe the yellow-green color makes sense now.

+
By: Justin (Tmethyl)
2013-07-11 02:02:34 CEST (+0200)

Thank you Christian

Tuber
By: Justin (Tmethyl)
2013-07-11 02:02:09 CEST (+0200)

I said Ganoderma as a sarcastic joke.
In reply to the proposal of C.molybdites.

To me, this thing is as close to C.moly as it is to G.applanatum lol.

It was 4.25" tall. Didn’t have a noticeable scent, bruises brown, was growing and colonizing in the leaf litter of Laurel oaks.

I do think it’s a Leucocoprinus, but it does not look much like, and is bigger than the L.birnbaumii I often find. I actually get Leucocoprinus birnbaumii contamination in some of my mushroom cultures, they don’t do much damage, but they can be annoying. It’s amazing how fast they can germinate, colonize and fruit from a sterile or pasteurized substrate.

Okay…
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-07-11 00:38:41 CEST (+0200)

there is no such thing as Macrolepiota molybdites.

Chlorophyllum molybdites does not have a yellowish-green cap. It also does not have yellowish-green spores. The annulus of this specimen isn’t covered in spores of any color, given that the cap is still nearly completely closed, and the spores on the gills are probably nearly all immature.

I’ve seen this here a couple times, so let’s lay it to rest:

Macrolepiota are the very tall, skinny species with snakeskin patterns on the lower stipe and overall dull colors.

Chlorophyllum now contains green-spored and white-spored species, some of which used to be in Macrolepiota.

This is a Leucocoprinus.

This is definitely not a Macrolepiota
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-07-11 00:36:25 CEST (+0200)

and I can’t find any references to the existence of a species named M. ‘chlorisima’

No, Justin.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-07-11 00:30:10 CEST (+0200)

Not a Ganoderma of any kind.

Ganodermas are woody conks, often with caps that appear varnished (hence one common name, Varnish shelf). Ganodermas are saprophytes and found always on wood, sometimes buried.

Probably not Leucocoprinus birnbaumii. But you be the judge. Was this over 10 cm high (about 4 inches)? If it was over 4 inches, it is likely Macrolepiota molybdites. If 4 inches or under, Leucocoprinus b. a possibility.

Leucocoprinus birnbaumii is often seen in flower pots, and is common growing in greenhouses. Based on the leaves in your photos, I think L. birnbaumii nearly an impossibility.

I think this is Ganoderma applanatum
By: Justin (Tmethyl)
2013-07-10 04:46:36 CEST (+0200)

Created: 2013-07-10 04:08:13 CEST (+0200)
Last modified: 2013-07-12 02:14:49 CEST (+0200)
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