Observation 143577: Amanita sect. Vaginatae sensu Zhu L. Yang
When: 2013-08-22
(33.546° -108.6886° 2216m)

Notes: in soil amongst Ponderosa pine. Odor mild, indistinct. Width of cap: 120mm, Overall height: 170mm, Width of stipe just below annulus: 24mm. Stipe hollow

Proposed Names

30% (2)
Recognized by sight
28% (1)
Recognized by sight: I didn’t see an annulus, just stipe flesh cracking & peeling
54% (1)
Recognized by sight: Igor has already pointed out the absence of a partial veil from the stem.
Based on chemical features: See comment below.

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


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Thanks again, Bob. We got genetic data yesterday.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-12 15:45:02 CST (-0500)

I have been working on the data for this collection for awhile. We have both the “proposed barcode” (nrITS) and the nrLSU gene. Neither matches anything in GenBank or in the local sectional databases here in Roosevelt. Not much of a surprise there. The closest matches (to existing sequences [NOTA BENE!]) are very clearly in sect. Vaginatae. That’s about what can be said. We will probably end up creating a webpage for this one. The temporary code will be posted here when we assign one.

Very, very interesting material.

Very best,


Thanks Bob,
By: groundhog
2013-11-26 15:34:15 CST (-0500)

This material has been recieved and accessioned into Rod’s herbarium. Rod is planning to do further work on this specimen.

Meltzer’s negative
By: Bob Chapman (Disciseda)
2013-08-23 16:54:33 CDT (-0400)

My Meltzer’s is ~20 years old, if makes any difference. Of interest perhaps is that the gills dried pink.

we often see a stocky vaginate sp. here in CA…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-08-23 14:26:37 CDT (-0400)

Amanita protecta.


But I am not saying that this is clearly section anything, just that the details are ambiguous.

I have no doubts that you have plenty of Meltzer’s at your disposal, Rod, although I may write to you later for your source! ;)

I was merely suggesting that Bob, if he can, do a drop test at home. No mail lag time necessary.

By: I. G. Safonov (IGSafonov)
2013-08-23 14:21:20 CDT (-0400)

an evanescent annulus is certainly a possibility. If that is the case, this mushroom should then belong to sect. Phalloideae (too robust to be placed in Caesareae?).

A totally elongating stem and a striate cap margin and even…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-08-23 14:14:32 CDT (-0400)

truncate short gills will not separate Amidella from sections Caesareae and Vaginatae. Even a patch on the cap can appear in all three of the named sections. A robust specimen is very unlikey to be in the Vaginatae; I can’t recall one.

Hence, the problem that we are all noticing.

The absence of brick-colored bruising may be a reason to turn away from Amidella here; however, whetstoneae and peckiana bruise very little. Neither of those names appear to apply here, however.

I have a bottle of Melzer’s that we just topped up. It awaits.

Very best,


odd amanita.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-08-23 13:13:28 CDT (-0400)

It has the overall gestalt of an amidella, but what about that striate margin?

Does it have a bulb or is the stipe totally elongating?

Is the annulus missing or simply not a character of this mushroom?

Meltzer’s to the rescue!

Might of had one
By: Bob Chapman (Disciseda)
2013-08-23 12:17:18 CDT (-0400)

Igor — That bothered me too, but this was a pretty worn specimen and the annulus may have disappeared. The annuli on my observation 143580 look like they could be gone at the whim of a light breeze.

I know of one species of Amidella from collecting in the Chiricahuas… EDIT
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-08-23 10:09:37 CDT (-0400)

I’d very much like to see this material, Bob. I hesitate to put a section on it with certainty without having it in hand. I think Igor has hit on a possibility. The temperorary codename for the Chiricahua species is Amanitasp-AZ25.” See a picture and spore measurements here:


My impression is that the species’ range extends to the central, neo-volcanic region of Mexico. I believe the collection from that area was at 3000 m (more or less) with pine. Another amidella, something like A.fallax,” occurred in the same forest.

Very best,


Created: 2013-08-23 00:03:32 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2014-11-12 15:49:13 CST (-0500)
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