Observation 147688: Amanita sect. Vaginatae sensu Zhu L. Yang
When: 2013-10-08
No herbarium specimen

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

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I felt like there is a lot of ambiguity with this section in the PNW.
By: Caleb Brown (Caleb Brown)
2013-10-09 16:30:39 PDT (-0700)

Im calling it to section due to the lack of mature fruits and microscopy, which i think would be helpful at this point. I Considered pachycolea, but dont have confidence in this one being said species.

yeah
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-10-09 16:10:16 PDT (-0700)

I guess that volva might be constricted (but it really doesn’t show the pinch-and-flare pattern clearly, but I didn’t see the fruitbody, and it didn’t look like that from the photos. It very well could be A. constricta (in the PNW sense)

that’s a big grisette…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-10-09 15:52:58 PDT (-0700)

but a pinched volva as well as a darkened stipe and marginate gills also occur in constricta, as does a reddening volva. warts and patches on the cap are far more common in constricta than in pachycolea.

Just curious why, if all of the right features were there, Caleb didn’t just call it pachycolea right outta the gate? Maybe because he also saw some ambiguity here?

Best name at this point is exactly what it is being called above, IMO.

No one suggested it was a slam dunk
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-10-09 12:21:34 PDT (-0700)

especially not Caleb, who actually proposed a more general name.

Yeah, these things are up to 12 inches tall, so… probably not one of the smaller species.
These are not pale-capped. True, no photos show the umbo… but no photos show a mature cap, so I wouldn’t expect to see an umbo…

If i find more i will preserve them in my herbarium
By: Caleb Brown (Caleb Brown)
2013-10-09 11:53:53 PDT (-0700)

the tall ones were about 9-12’’ The pin was about 4’’

just how big were these, Caleb?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-10-09 09:48:18 PDT (-0700)

and why didn’t YOU just call them pachycolea, if it was such a slam dunk ID?

the volva appears to be pinched, rather than long and loose. yes, sometimes even a membranous volva gets left atop a cap, but this grisette reminds me far more of the smaller species with thick reddening volvas that break into warts and patches that we find in the Sierra. Also, it is unusual for pachycholea to have a pale cap, and there are no photos that show the typical pachycholea umbo.

many grisettes become tall after expansion.

I am not convinced from the existing evidence that this is pachycholea, and there is no back-up specimen to take this further.

I do agree that it is a grisette, though. ;)

Based solely on the fact
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-10-09 09:12:11 PDT (-0700)

that there is a patch of UV on the cap? Why do you think it’s reasonable to exclude that ID based on a single character?

The very thick volva, grey decorations on the stipe, brown gill edges, very tall fruitbodies and robust stature, deep striations on the cap, under conifers in the coastal PNW, everything fits. This species occasionally gets a big patch of UV on the cap as can be seen in your observation 33492

Now it’s possible that genetic or microscopic (or even more-thorough macroscopic) data would show that these heavy-veiled forms are different, but I see no evidence to support that currently.

we see similar grisettes in the Sierra…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-10-09 08:45:54 PDT (-0700)

with reddening volvas that break up into warts or patches on the cap. they do not currently have a good latin name.

this is certainly not pachycolea, though.

Created: 2013-10-08 17:01:25 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2013-10-09 09:16:45 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 72 times, last viewed: 2016-04-05 03:04:09 PDT (-0700)
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