Observation 153934: Cantharellus Adans. ex Fr.
When: 2013-11-26
Collection location: Braga, Portugal [Click for map]
No herbarium specimen

Notes: These Cantharellus “found themselves greek to be born”. Could it be an effect of dry weather? They have parts of hymenium on top of the cap.

Proposed Names

47% (2)
Eye3
Recognized by sight
56% (1)
Eyes3
Recognized by sight
28% (1)
Recognized by sight
Used references: Gerhard’s suggestion, based on geographic distribution

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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Cultivation
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-12-05 23:51:40 MST (-0700)

can mean what Christian said. It can also mean other things.

When I use the term cultivation, I mean it in the same sense as cultivating plants. Where there were once none of the desired plants, and after planting them there are many, I consider cultivation. Many farmers accept this practice.

At Paul Bishop’s, before I attempted to cultivate truffles, there were truffles present. Dr. Trappe and others believe that means the truffles simply spread by animal mycophagy.

When searching for truffles at Paul’s in 1986-7, I found five pounds of fresh truffles. About one of 20 trees showed truffles. Within 3 years of inoculation, quarter-sized or larger truffles were common. Production went from 5-15 pounds per acre per year in 1986-7 to and estimated 300-1300 pounds per acre per year.

At that time, Oregon White truffle was the only species. Now Dr. James Trappe has allowed that a spring form was/is the true Tuber gibbosum, and the commonly found fall truffle (commercially harvested) is actually Tuber oregonense. At Paul Bishop’s farm I was finding both species with the same trees.

An attempt was made to inoculate the same stand of trees at Paul Bishop’s with Leucangium carthusianum, the Oregon Black truffle. No Leucangium have been found there in the 20+ years since inoculation. I believe none will be found there. The soil requirements for Leucangium carthusianum are not present.

Paul Bishop died in 2011. Production of both kinds of truffle has fallen dramatically. It was also expected. What were common in young trees are uncommon in trees that are now 60+ feet tall. Indeed, many of those trees were dying because of lack of light and competition for water and nutrients. Still, for 25 years Paul’s property was the pre-eminant truffle plantation in the United States.

Yeast propagules are necessary for Tuber spore germination (although that has not been proven with Leucangium carthusiana). A source for yeast propagules was added to the original Tuber inoculation.

I have duplicated this “cultivation” at 6 other locations in Oregon and Washington. A key criteria for “cultivation” in my opinion is duplication.

While Leucangium cultivation at Paul’s was unsuccessful, it was completely successful at 3 locations in Washington: outside of View, Clark County, Washington; at another site 4 miles distant from the first; and finally at a site near Silver Lake, Washington.

Some mycorrhizal fungi are easy to grow. Rhizopogons are among the easiest, I’ve found. But Hysterangium, Hymenogaster, Barrsia, Endogone, and (rarely) Tuber can be found under very young Douglas-fir in plantation and nursery environments.

Cultivation
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2013-12-05 14:51:28 MST (-0700)

means:
“raise or grow (plants/[fungi]), esp. on a large scale for commercial purposes.’

It should be mentioned that cultivation is a matter of degrees.
I think an important component of what people generally mean when they talk about mushroom cultivation is consistency.

The large scale production of near-constant flushes of oyster mushrooms in controlled conditions (without having to maintain EM host forest) is radically different from what Tuberale is describing for chanterelles (which requires a soil ecosystem).

That said, they’re just two ends of the cultivation spectrum.

We’ve already seen that truffles can be ‘cultivated’ in this same way, and I have seen evidence that chanterelles can as well. But critically, it is fairly difficult and random (not consistent and easy to implement).

Gerhard:
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-12-05 13:52:29 MST (-0700)

It is possible to cultivate chanterelles. Dr. Danell has a web-site devoted to that. One of the things that seems to be necessary for Cantharellus production is Pseudomonus pudidum or Pseudomous (lividum?). Cantharellus is 100% associated with Pseudomonus.

According to Dr. Danell who did the DNA work on samples from over the world, Cantharellus cibarius is very rare. Only 5-6 known locations for it, most in England (and it’s not that common there).

Elsa: I myself own oak woodlands in Oregon. I have never seen chanterelles there, although they are commonly found in Oregon with Douglas-fir, Sitka spruce, Western hemlock, Noble fir, and some other conifers. It sounds like Eric needed some of your chanterelles for comparison … in 1994.

I found something about this deformations
By: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)
2013-12-05 04:16:55 MST (-0700)
Wait.
By: Gerhard Koller (Gerhard)
2013-12-05 04:02:49 MST (-0700)

So you are trying to say

1) it is possible to cultivate chantarelles?

2) Cantharellus cibarius is very rare?

What is Cantharellus cibarius growing with conifers all over temperate Europe? I agree strongly that there is no cibarius in the Mediterranean area. All I found there looking alike is Cantharellus ferruginascens which I believe is Elsa’s find too. Is there a name for C. cibarius from coniferous forests?

I always find
By: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)
2013-12-05 03:59:51 MST (-0700)

Cantharellus in mixed woods of Pine and Oaks. Pinus sylvestris is everywhere here around, most of the cases, mixed with oaks and cork oaks.

There is no site, Elsa.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-12-04 18:00:23 MST (-0700)

I was present when Danell presented his results. The most telling was the cultivation of this species with Pinus silvestris in gallon pots. Cantharellus cibarius had not been found forming mycorrhiza with Pinus prior to this. And photos of chanterelles fruiting from the bottom of those pots. To me that was more amazing. The seedling trees could not have been over 1 year old at the time.

I told Eric that I had cultivated a local variety of chanterelle at Paul Bishop’s Jones Creek Tree Farm in 1992. Only 3 were found before Paul had several trees near the site cut to prevent Douglas-fir root-rot expansion. Once the additional trees were culled, no chanterelles re-appeared. Paul Bishop grew up on the land, and said he had never seen chanterelles there before. Many of the trees he planted when he was young.

I don’t find
By: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)
2013-12-04 13:37:11 MST (-0700)

any site saying that Cantharellus cibarius doesn’t exist in Europe unless that particular place, you are referring to C. cibarius, right? If you have a link of it, please share with me.

In 1994 Eric Danell
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-12-04 13:19:19 MST (-0700)

published his master’s thesis “Cantharellus cibarius: mycorrhiza formation and ecology”. In it, he described several locations in Brittain, Scandinavia and Denmark to be identical to Fries’ original Cantharellus cibarius. DNA from other collections were suspect as they did not match DNA from the original Fries’ collection in Upsalla, Sweden.

Collections from Oregon (I submitted one) were identified as Cantharellus formosus, or Western Golden chanterelle, the state mushroom of Oregon.

Other than a single small area of Denmark’s coast, this species is not found elsewhere in Europe.

What do you mean with
By: Elsa (pinknailsgirl)
2013-12-04 11:31:19 MST (-0700)

known habitat? If you are referring to studies yet to be done… for the present I would consider Cantharellus cibarius name ou Cantharellus cibarius group. When they find a conclusion, then we can be more acurate. This is my opinion in general. For this particular obs. I don’t mind to call it anything, let it be Cantharellus, I only wanted to register the fact.

For this to be C. cibarius
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2013-12-03 23:20:14 MST (-0700)

it would have to be a large extension of known habitat, Elsa. Read Dr. Eric Danell’s definitive research into C. cibarius, currently known from only a very few sites in England, Denmark and Scandinavia.

Created: 2013-11-30 05:37:09 MST (-0700)
Last modified: 2013-12-05 14:45:29 MST (-0700)
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