Observation 15673: Amanita baccata sensu Arora
When: 2008-12-20
Herbarium specimen reported

Images

32882
medium sized; note rooting stipe
32883
note appendiculate margin, reduced annulus.
32924
a nice collection of fresh material, all on the dryer.

Proposed Names

88% (4)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight: Just applying the preferred synonym.

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

Add Comment
No sorry, thank you instead…
By: Dimitar Bojantchev (dimitar)
2009-03-11 06:02:56 IST (+0530)

Pedro, thank you for refreshing the forum with some European
Mediterranean presence. I hope you didn’t take my clarification
the wrong way, as it was geared towards the nomenclatural aspects
only. It is significant that you recognized Californian
material. There is a great similarity between Central and
Southern California species and material from Spain, Portugal,
Italy and France.

D.
Sorry
By: Pedro Claro (pedroclaro)
2009-03-11 04:44:24 IST (+0530)

Dimitar: I’m sorry for taking your time with not entirely relevant comments. Next time I’ll assure their relevance before posting.

True, but not entirely relevant.
By: Dimitar Bojantchev (dimitar)
2009-03-10 20:45:09 IST (+0530)

Pedro, your points about A. baccata vs boudieri make sense, but
they’re not exactly relevant to this collection. The combination, or
an informal name “A. baccata (sensu Arora)” is in use already and as
wrong as it may be, it is a temporary name that is understood well in
the context of this very specific taxon here in Northern
California. Which is yet to be analyzed and named correctly and
formally.

D. www.mushroomhobby.com
Back to it – now backed up with bibliographic references :)
By: Pedro Claro (pedroclaro)
2009-03-10 18:17:10 IST (+0530)

There’s a huge and superb monography on european amanitas by the french mycologists Pierre Neville and Serge Poumarat in which they define very precisely each taxon. According to them, the epithet ‘baccata’ has been used to nominate very different species (besides A. boudieri, also A. strobiliformis, A. curtipes, A. lepiotoides and even A. pantherina), so it is, at least, a nomen ambiguum. Bas & Honrubia (1982) proposed the rejection of this epithet, because they considered it a nomen dubium. Even before, Gilbert (1940-1941) wrote that “it’s impossible to know which specie is compiled and drawn [in Fries work]; […the specie in the original drawing by Micheli (1729)] is absolutely impossible to establish.”

Amanita boudieri is bounded by the following characteristics: very fugacious partial veil (never forming an annulus), occurrence only in the first 6 months (Jan-Jun) in acid soils, Q frequently > 2.

It may be that we’re talking about a different specie, as the illustrated specimens were collected in another continent, but I consider Amanita boudieri a better proposal than the ambiguous or dubious Amanita baccata.

this curious and often locally collected CA lepidella is a naming work in progress…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2009-03-09 21:20:37 IST (+0530)

and “baccata” also produces confusion on this side of the pond!

Amanita boudieri?
By: Pedro Claro (pedroclaro)
2009-03-09 18:11:39 IST (+0530)

In Europe this species is more or less well established as Amanita boudieri. It seems, according to many authors, that Amanita baccata is a rather confusing name, having being applied to several different white amanitas. In Portugal I have seen this species in Spring (March-April) in coastal sand dunes, under Pinus pinaster.

point well taken
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2008-12-24 22:27:04 IST (+0530)

Good points all around, Nathan.

Rod

Provisional vs. ‘sensu’ names
By: Nathan Wilson (nathan)
2008-12-24 21:34:30 IST (+0530)

Using Amanita “baccata” implies that it is a provisional name for this organism. However, A. baccata is already a validly published name for a European species so it can’t be provisional in the usual sense. That’s why in this case we have Amanita baccata sensu Arora as the preferred name. Hopefully some day this will all get cleaned up with a nice new name for this little white sand lover.

Created: 2008-12-23 23:46:17 IST (+0530)
Last modified: 2012-09-12 08:49:07 IST (+0530)
Viewed: 593 times, last viewed: 2016-11-04 12:33:53 IST (+0530)