Observation 162885: Amanita Pers.
When: 2014-04-05
Who: Marwa
No herbarium specimen

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You are welcome, Marwa.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-04-15 01:31:54 CEST (+0200)

R

I got your mail adress
By: Marwa
2014-04-14 23:41:47 CEST (+0200)

Thanks once more.

OK. I’ll send you my email address using the MO email function.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-04-14 23:31:23 CEST (+0200)

R

That is great, I will let you know
By: Marwa
2014-04-14 23:15:02 CEST (+0200)

Thanks very much , I will keeb in touch and I will let you when I need your help. and I will take your advice in mind.

You may have a small problem.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-04-12 23:04:13 CEST (+0200)

Wolfe hardly produced any nrITS because one really can’t use it to build large phylogenetic trees. ITS has been made crazy by evolutionary history. Also, there are thousands of copies in every cell; and, consequently, it is occasionally the case that one sees evidence of intraspecific hybridization at the nrITS locus. Then you have to pull the separate sequences apart with bacterial cloning. We have one amanita in the eastern U.S. that is a single biological species (apparently) but a very complex intraspecific “hybrid swarm” as far as nrITS is concerned. This latter issue is currently being studied by Dr. Karen Hughes (Univ. of Tennessee, Knoxville) and others. The hypothesis that nrITS becomes homogeneous over time in any given organism is not borne out in this curious “hybrid”.

What we know about that “hybrid” taxon is on the WAO website here:

http://www.amanitaceae.org?Amanita+sp-lavendula01

“sp-lavendula01” is one of my invented temporary code names. There are a lot of them on the WAO site. Part of our doing taxonomy is the building up of the data to support the temporary names on the way to finding or publishing proper names for the organisms about which we are learning.

I am just discussing with a colleague a project to derive nrITS from the same specimens that Wolfe used for derivation of the multiple genes he needed for his research. Let’s keep in touch. We may be able to give ITS sequences that you can use for your alignment. Of course, we need to get them first…and we don’t know what troubles we may have.

The WAO site has a page on the motifs that are useful in checking to see if you have a complete ITS for an amanita. We usually search for the four major motifs in newly derived sequences to be sure that we have the basic segments of an nrITS sequence. I think this is pretty much standard practice as one step in checking ITS sequence quality:

http://www.amanitaceae.org?nrITS+Sublocus+Termini+in+the+Amanitaceae/...

If we can help you, please let us know.

Very best,

Rod

unfortunately I didn’t see them before.
By: Marwa
2014-04-12 22:39:26 CEST (+0200)

Such web sites helped me a lot as a beginner, however this is the first time to see this on for Amanitas. Great to know about them. such ways of getting information learn me much about mushrooms. As we in Sudan have nothing done in regards to mushrooms.

My pleasure to let you know about the DNA result when I get it. The sequencing will be done for the ITS region only (not the whole genome)and then I should analyze and compare with those available in databases.

Thanks for your interest and help, I like studying in mushrooms so mush.
Regards

If you haven’t seen it, may I suggest: two pages?
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-04-12 21:56:14 CEST (+0200)

http://www.amanitaceae.org?section+Lepidella

and

http://www.amanitaceae.org?subsection+Vittadiniae

On the technical tabs of the species-level pages in these morphologically-based groupings, you will often find DNA sequences derived from DNA extracted from specimens that are from the original description of species or that were determined by myself or by Dr. Z.L. Yang. The idea is to collect sequences identified by the disappearing organismic researchers who knew the organisms first and the DNA later. It is my hope that, in creating this kind of connection on the web, that I can leave behind me name-to-DNA linkages that will mean something in the future. I should add “I hope. I hope. I hope.” I would very much like to know what you find when you have DNA from the present material and are deriving sequences.

Very best,

Rod

Million of Thanks
By: Marwa
2014-04-12 21:28:12 CEST (+0200)

Thanks very much For the valuable information and for the interesting paper. I’m more than happy to receive such information from an old mycologist while I’m very beginner. Thanks to inform me that we should not confirm that it belongs to specific species. by the way I’m doing molecular identification for the samples to asses the morphological one.

Next time I will hide my self and let her till expanded and see the gills.
All the best
Marwa

Yes, Amanita develops in a unique mode among all agarics.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-04-12 20:57:33 CEST (+0200)

Instead of the gills growing down from the cap into empty space, the gills develop in place in solid tissue between the eventual bottom of the cap the eventual stem. Amanita protects its spore-producing gills very jealously. First with a universal veil (that sometimes absorbs toxic metals from the soil), then with the skin of the cap (which also can contain toxic metals in some species), and (finally when the cap has expanded) with (in some species) absorption of toxic metals in the gills.

I mean to say, “yes, the mushroom is hiding its gills from you.” It is as though amanitas had a terrible shock (probably something like a world drought) many millions of years ago; and they became “paranoid.” :)

Because I am a conservative old mycologist, I would back off from saying this is vittadinii specifically. Of course, it could be that species. A slightly less specific thing to say would be that this may be a species of Amanita subsection Vitadiniae Bas. Nearly all the taxa that Bas classified in that subsection appear to be “free-living”…that is they do not require symbiosis with a tree, but are capable of ingesting cellulose (for example, from dead grass or leaves).

A very nice paper by Benjamin Wolfe et al. reported some innovative research on this topic for the first time in 2012.

Very best,

Rod

yes, most probably Amanita, however, the appearence is affected.
By: Marwa
2014-04-12 20:18:17 CEST (+0200)

Thanks, it was grown in an small area, for ornamental purpose and small number of grasses and some ornamental shrubs like hibiscus and exora, also one tree of Khaya senegalensis, however the sample were 1 metre far from the tree. the area was not irrigated well. so the appearance of the sample is affected I thought. in fact I was a beginner mycologist and in Sudan we have not even research on mushrooms diversity or classification.
R. E. Tulloss , I did not see obvious gills, is that because it is in an early stage??

yes, most probably Amanita, however, the appearence is affected.
By: Marwa
2014-04-12 20:18:15 CEST (+0200)

Thanks, it was grown in an small area, for ornamental purpose and small number of grasses and some ornamental shrubs like hibiscus and exora, also one tree of Khaya senegalensis, however the sample were 1 metre far from the tree. the area was not irrigated well. so the appearance of the sample is affected I thought. in fact I was a beginner mycologist and in Sudan we have not even research on mushrooms diversity or classification.
R. E. Tulloss , I did not see obvious gills, is that because it is in an early stage??

I think Galla is going in a reasonable direction.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-04-12 02:33:41 CEST (+0200)

I would think that it is probable that, if this is a free-living (nonmycorrhizal) amanita like vittadinii, then it might be endemic to Africa. South of the Sahara there are a number of such taxa, and their delimitation into species is probably not clear in Sudan. Most of the work on them has been done in South Africa, with some reports of species from west central Africa. This is very interesting to see a species possibly of this group pictured from Sudan.

Very best,

Rod Tulloss

The materiala covering the cap could be a universal veil. EDITED
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-04-12 00:18:20 CEST (+0200)

Likewise, the stem (which is cracking) could be decorated with universal veil material. So it does give the impression of an Amanita. The somewhat rooting base of the stem also is consistent with some amanitas. Perhaps an Amanta of section Lepidella?

Were there any trees of any kind in the vicinity? I notice grass in the picture. Is there much grass in the area? Much dead grass on the ground?

Very best,

Rod Tulloss

Created: 2014-04-05 09:50:27 CEST (+0200)
Last modified: 2014-04-13 00:15:23 CEST (+0200)
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