Observation 166774: Entoloma Fr. ex P. Kumm.
When: 2014-06-04
No herbarium specimen

Notes: Terrestrial near Hemlock, Yellow Birch and some Maple. Very damp and humid area. Looked like small pieces of wood were attached to the stipe base.

Proposed Names

46% (2)
Used references: Audubon
74% (3)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

Add Comment
Hello Linas.
By: Phil (gunchky)
2014-06-09 17:01:58 CEST (+0200)

Nice to meet you, and thanks for your comments. I will be mailing the specimen this afternoon.

Hi Phil and Dave ….
By: Linas Kudzma (baravykas)
2014-06-09 15:11:25 CEST (+0200)

My thoughts are that there are several Entolomas that are usually identified in the field as E. strictius because they look very similar. Last summer there was one VERY abundant species in my area of NJ which I sequenced and it does not match any E. strictius sequence in GenBank. By macro/micro I would have called it strictius. The ITS sequence was identical to an unnamed species from Dr. Brandon Matheny’s group in Univ of Tennessee. I think there is much to be clarified regarding North American Entolomas. That is why I’m keen on getting material to preserve/sequence and building a database of Northeastern species to try to see what’s the same and what’s different.

I have found entololmas…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-06-09 04:26:15 CEST (+0200)

during April/May which fit one or another description of E. vernum in a variety of habitat. Check out these two which I found on my property a few years ago.
http://mushroomobserver.org/65792?q=20hMq
http://mushroomobserver.org/65791?q=20hMq
These two observations were made about three feet way from one another, on a mowed path with no conifers anywhere nearby. They are probably the same species. If I posted this type obs now, I’d call it “Entoloma vernum group.”

Mushroom Expert mentions the possibility of the twisted stipe for E. vernum.
http://www.mushroomexpert.com/entoloma_vernum.html

Partly because of the date, I’m hesitant to propose “vernum group” for this obs (166774). As for the fragility of the stipe, I know I have IDed vernum types with fragile stipes. But this trait may be more variable than my memory indicates.

E. vernum
By: Phil (gunchky)
2014-06-09 03:55:32 CEST (+0200)

uder conifers, and Oak Hickory. Does not mention deep humos or wet area where this was found. Once again E. vernum stipe does not have twisted logitudinal striations. Also E. vernum stipe is brownish; E. strictius stipe white to grayish. Check photos.

But even in he absence of micro-analysis…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-06-09 03:36:20 CEST (+0200)

one may still manage reasonable proposals. As you say, though, level of confidence is important.

I have argued from both of these perspectives… to “call it that” or not to “call it that.” I think that in some instances, several distinctive macro-traits correlate well with one particular name, even if evidence suggests that more than one species may be possible. Until alternative species names become available, using a certain name may be as good as it gets. IMO, one of the really astute features here on MO is that the highest level of confidence is characterized as “I’d call it that” as opposed to “what it is.” For it is what it is… today, tomorrow and so on. But I may change what I call something.

In the case of these drab-colored, thin-stalked, umbonate entolomas, I guess I tend to think more conservatively. Maybe this goes back to my having read Lincoff’s comment under Entoloma strictius, “Similar species of Entoloma can only be differentiated microscopically.” This implies that other species have been identified, and presumably, given names.

As per this obs, with spring coming late around here this year, early June seems reasonable for the vernum types.

Forgot to mention
By: Phil (gunchky)
2014-06-09 03:02:33 CEST (+0200)

E. vernum is one of the first gilled mushrooms to appear in the spring. Your obs. was from may, which coincides with E. vernum. Mine was made in June. As to your comment about lighting, I have seen many obs. including my own in poor lighting and with apologies by the photographer for taking such poor photos, but still insisted his/her obs. were correct even though as you say lighting and color are important morphological features. What’s more important is this instance seems to be microscopic features which many observers have conveniently eliminated for some reason, including me.

The stipe was
By: Phil (gunchky)
2014-06-09 02:39:36 CEST (+0200)

strong and sturdy; with as I said, twisted longitudinal stiations. I will be mailing this to Linas tommorow afternoon, and will await his findings.
If my observation is incorrect, I fervently do not believe that anyone who has not used microscopy with a firm foundation of mycological terminology should not call this E. strictius under any circumstances, especially as recognized by sight. I would call those observation as falsifying ones credentials, and if recognized by a professioal mycologist- without giving due credit- “plagarism” or “intellectual thievery”. I apologize if I offend anyone, but that is how I feel about certain observations.

I just spent a few minutes…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-06-09 02:20:23 CEST (+0200)

reviewing MO E. strictius posts. I see your point, Phil. There are quite a few high-confidence proposals made under this name.

The ones from eastern NA mainly share these traits… July/August occurrences, tannish cap, marginal striations, and appear to have the relatively fleshy stipes… compared to most of the other umbonate entolomas with stipes that are long, straight, and more-or-less thin.

So although this description may apply to several different species, perhaps the best current understanding of this group is represented by the name strictius.

Maybe the lighting has darkened the appearance for your obs (166774). But depth of color is part of the available visual information.

This has been a slow late spring season around here. So I believe the date of occurrence weighs against strictius. And the stipe is thin and fragile-looking… like many of the spring entoloma observations I have made over the years. Here’s one from a few years ago.
http://mushroomobserver.org/45458?q=20etx
Since that time, I have adopted the practice of calling these types “Entoloma vernum group.” I have noticed a fair amount of variation in cap color for these types. The stipe is generally thin and somewhat fragile.

Checked your post
By: Phil (gunchky)
2014-06-09 01:12:41 CEST (+0200)

and noticed that there is plenty of sunlight where you found it. Mine were picked in dark, damp, humid woods, which I believe would have a profound effect on the mushrooms colors and features; as would the nutrients available in the soil among other factors. I still don’t understand how some people can call it E. strictius without microscopic examination while other observations are summarily dissmissed as erroneus.

I agree, Phil.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-06-08 18:51:55 CEST (+0200)

Using the name strictius does not come along with a high level of confidence, unless on may offer compelling evidence… examination by an entoloma expert, DNA evidence… But us amateurs still form our own concepts regarding using such a name. Here’s one which pretty well fits my concept of strictius.
http://mushroomobserver.org/72833?q=20etx
The stipe is fairly robust, the cap is marginally striate, and for whatever reason I seem to think of strictius as a light-tannish capped mushroom.

Your strictius proposal here stands (at the time of this comment) with relatively high confidence (46%). But who’se to confidently say it isn’t strictius?

Entoloma strictius
By: Phil (gunchky)
2014-06-07 21:48:00 CEST (+0200)

is found from April-September, with a cap diameter of 1-2" and stipe length 2-4" with longitudinally twisted lines. Entoloma strictipes has a smaller pileus, and a slightly larger hollow stipe. Perhaps E. strictipes is what you are finding, although neither species seems robust to me except for their length.
To answer your question I have them in my garage trying to obtain some spores, but they do not seem to be in very good condition. In any event I’ll dry them and mail them to the person you mentioned.
If these are not E. strictius, perhaps every one who proposed this name as recognized by sight at this time of the year should reconsider their observations; unless of course they are professionals who have previously done scientific research on this particular species. I am well aware of the fact that there are probably thousands of unidentified species waiting to be discovered and named.

I’m not claiming…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-06-07 13:08:57 CEST (+0200)

this represents any of the species in the E. vernum group. Just that there are many species of entoloma that occur during spring. At least some are probably unnamed.

Did you preserve this specimen, Phil? MO member Linas Kudzma is accepting collections of entolomas for DNA analysis.

This area
By: Phil (gunchky)
2014-06-07 04:16:58 CEST (+0200)

is one I have permission to hunt on. It has been extremely productive for many years. As for spring entolomas I read the comment on E. vermun AKA N. vernum- close enough- and I believe those species are much smaller than my post. As for the twisted longitudinal striations on the stipe I’m not sure if E. vernum possesses this feature. Still have it in my garage to obtain spores. Perhaps they will permit a more definitive explanation for my obs. If any mycologist would want to study these to definatly Id them, I will gladly mail them to said persons. Love to know exactly what they may be as I find them quite often.

Phil, looks like you hit…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2014-06-07 01:10:37 CEST (+0200)

an area that had some nice mushrooms.

The types(s) I think of as E. strictius occur during summer and are more robust. I think this one falls under the general heading “spring entoloma” of which there are probably many species.

Created: 2014-06-07 00:16:34 CEST (+0200)
Last modified: 2016-02-04 19:38:21 CET (+0100)
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