Observation 177033: Lichen P. Micheli
When: 2014-04-20
Who: zaca
No herbarium specimen

Notes: The acicular multi-septate spores seems to point to Bacidia, but I was not able to find one similar.
Average dimensions for the spores: Me = 39.1 × 3.2 um ; Qe = 12.7 (N=40);
Average dimensions for the asci: Me = 78.7 × 8.9 um ; Qe = 8.9 (N=17).


Chemical reactions.
Microscopy: Hymenium (100x)
Microscopy: Hymenium
Microscopy: Asci and spores.
Microscopy: Asci and spores.
Microscopy: Asci and spores.
New data added.

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Clear. Thanks, Jason.
By: zaca
2014-09-06 17:07:09 EDT (-0400)
“Do what I say, not what I do”
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2014-09-06 17:02:37 EDT (-0400)

Closely related to “easier said than done”. :)

Make what I say and not what I do!
By: zaca
2014-09-06 16:55:10 EDT (-0400)

Do you have such saying in US?

I didn’t make any notes, so probably didn’t even try to check chemistry
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2014-09-06 16:50:55 EDT (-0400)

I was working off of a local key covering just eastern Maryland, so chemistry wasn’t required. In that area if you a have gray peritheciate crust with long clear multi-septate spores, then it’s this species, end of question. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help me outside of eastern Maryland at all!!

(But you’re right, these things rarely have any useful chemistry.)

Seem the same type of “thing”,
By: zaca
2014-09-06 16:37:00 EDT (-0400)

and I bet no special chemistry detected.

By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2014-09-06 16:29:24 EDT (-0400)
Jason, thanks for the help.
By: zaca
2014-09-06 16:18:53 EDT (-0400)
I don’t know how useful overall gestalt is
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2014-09-06 16:12:12 EDT (-0400)

for lichens like these, but… this looks a lot like something called Pseudosagedia by lichenologists in eastern North America. They also have really long multi-septate spores, dark thin gray thallus, semi-immersed black perithecia, trebouxioid algae (I think). Not everyone agrees on the taxonomy of pyrenolichens,though,so the British Flora may well call it something different. Very difficult group.

Yes, you are right …
By: zaca
2014-09-06 16:03:24 EDT (-0400)

these are perithecia, as I confirm just now (see the new attached photo). The fruitbodies I collect are so small that no section is possible: therefore I had to observe the all fruitbody. I took new pictures, which clearly show that the specimen had perithecia. The melzer reaction completely muddy the slide, making impossible to focus the asci, but no bluish reaction appeared, only slightly yellowish. The alga seems to be a really green one, not trentepohlia.

Does this have perithecia?
By: Jason Hollinger (jason)
2014-09-06 12:53:56 EDT (-0400)

Bacidia should have clearly-disc-shaped apothecia. Have you verified that it has chlorococcoid/trebouxioid algae, not trentepohlia? (Although admittedly sometimes it is very difficult to tell…)

[EDIT: Oh,and maybe try staining the asci K then Melzer’s / Lugol’s solution, in particular). May be helpful…]

Created: 2014-09-05 17:08:58 EDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2014-09-06 16:01:56 EDT (-0400)
Viewed: 47 times, last viewed: 2016-10-28 17:39:04 EDT (-0400)
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