Observation 179975: Pisolithus Alb. & Schwein.
When: 2014-09-21
No herbarium specimen

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RE: Cedrus deodora
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2014-09-25 12:14:17 MDT (-0600)

I just looked at a couple of large Deodora, Randy. Young twigs do seem to have individual leaves, while older twigs (2+ years old) have clumps. Do you see larger clusters of needles on older twigs for your Deodora?

I was mostly agreeing with you, Byrain.
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2014-09-25 12:11:08 MDT (-0600)

If the taxon was originally European (most taxons are), they have still been adopted to N.A.

Australian Pisolithus species could each have a single eucalypt host. Or more than one. (Has anyone tried to grow Pisolithus in Australia with different eucalypt hosts? I don’t know of any.) Are any Australian Pisolithus species the same? Most are too young to tell, yet.

Alexander H. Smith collected what he identified as Pisolithus tinctorius many times in Oregon, Washington, and Idaho.

I’m certain this is a Cedrus or true cedar. It well may be a Cedrus deodora, which has been widely planted outside of its native Lebanon (the original cedar of Lebanon). The twig shown in the photograph may be just a very young twig. Cedrus deodora has needles in closely-related bundles on 2nd and 3rd year twigs, vs. individual leaves on 1st year twigs.

The observation is from California, U.S.A. Unless the tree was started in Europe and transplanted to Turlock, the fungus is probably native. Mycorrhizal fungi have3 a tenacious tendancy to hitchhike om roots of nursery trees. Otherwide Oregon, Washington and British Columbia still would not have Amanita phalloides. But they appear to have come in with chestnut seedlings.

In answer to your last question (If Australia has huge amount(s) of genetic variety with Pisolithus, why not North America?): I don’t know. It might be the geologic age of the continents involved. It might have to do with the number of eucalypts native to Australia, but not the U.S. Perhaps Pisolithus had more time to adapt to Austrlian climatic niches. The possibilities abound!

If you had a point in that
By: Byrain
2014-09-25 09:43:20 MDT (-0600)

I failed to see it, nor where you are disagreeing with anything I said…

You’re using a European taxon in a confusing genus with lots of work to be done for multiple collections with different host families. Why do you think this find growing with possible Cedrus (A non-native genus) is a European species and thus present in the states? If Australia has huge amount of genetic variety with Pisolithus, why not North America?

Actuarlly
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2014-09-25 09:05:36 MDT (-0600)

species vary by the associations they form. Some associations are species specific, meaning they occur only with a single species. That means there could be hundreds of species involved, but each could be conspecific with a single host species.

Australia is definately a case in point.

Detailed collections necessary for moving forward. In the case of Australia, not enough to say merely eucalypts. Specific species need to be referenced.

And yes, it could apply to U.S. Pisolithus as well. Eucalypts are well-established in California and elsewhere in the U.S., but do not survive most of our northern winters in Oregon. I believe only 2-3 species of eucalypts can survive the dramatic temperature shifts during some days: sometimes as much as 50 degrees F. in less than 24 hours.

I’m sorry
By: Byrain
2014-09-25 08:11:18 MDT (-0600)

Mushrooms demystified does not have the answer to the Pisolithus issue…

If you want to identify these to species, we’re going to need to find out how many undescribed taxons exist and how to distinguish them. Old host information is not going to cut it. I personally find Pisolithus under all kinds of plants…

Edit: Just look at how screwed Pisolithus taxonomy is in a small part of Australia… http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...

Byrain:
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2014-09-24 16:08:04 MDT (-0600)

Are you talking about the “options” you have already presented? I think I’ve debunked those “options”, as the host trees they are known to associate with are not found in most of the U.S., if indeed at all.

Fact: other species of Pisolithus exist. Agreed. It is necessary to document in what ways they diverge from known species.

Tuberale
By: Byrain
2014-09-24 12:23:44 MDT (-0600)

You’ve been informed that there are undescribed options numerous times, why do you keep ignoring the facts?

I thought it was deodara…
By: Randy Longnecker (Randy L.)
2014-09-24 09:53:09 MDT (-0600)

I will go back and get a better picture, just had a cell phone that day.

Can’t be Deodora. Sorry, Just realized the twig in the 2nd photo
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2014-09-23 23:37:06 MDT (-0600)

should be the host. Don’t recognize the tree, though.

What tree is in the background, Randy?
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2014-09-23 23:34:57 MDT (-0600)

Is this a true cedar of some kind? Maybe Cedrus deodora? The cone brackets look similar.

Created: 2014-09-23 23:25:09 MDT (-0600)
Last modified: 2014-09-24 12:22:17 MDT (-0600)
Viewed: 70 times, last viewed: 2016-10-26 15:39:19 MDT (-0600)
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