Observation 182774: Panaeolus (Fr.) Quél.
When: 2014-10-10

Notes: has been fruiting every day as of 10/17

Proposed Names

43% (3)
Recognized by sight: blue bruising on mycelium at stem base is obvious in person.
63% (3)
Recognized by sight: Blue bruising doesn;t automatically make it P. cinctulus and P. cinctulus might have cryptic species too.

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
Burden of proof
By: Jacob Kalichman (Pulk)
2014-10-17 22:19:43 PDT (-0700)

I disagree, actually.

If MO were to require certainty in species identifications, very very few observations could get a title beyond genus. It’d obviously be better in one way, but it’d be a different project than (what I see as) the current one, which is something that allows (a) MANY people to contribute (public, vs a small group of experts with literature stashes), and (b) an actually substantial number of observations with species names.

Others have pointed out that the vote is called “I’d Call It That”, not “This Is What It Is”.

But… I don’t know anything about P. olivaceus or P. fimicola – thanks for the names!!! – there ARE known alternatives as yet, so I’ll go with just Panaeolus for now ;)

The burden of proof is…
By: Byrain
2014-10-17 21:39:39 PDT (-0700)

on proving this is P. cinctulus, not on proving that a lot of Panaeolus species look alike. I already listed what other possibilities there are, since you need it spelled out more explicitly, P. olivaceus and P. fimicola are both active and thus can stain blue, there are probably others. The possible cryptic species around P. cinctulus is just an after thought in this context, I just don’t think we should have a database full of overconfident identifications in notoriously difficult genera that will just end up further polluting image searches. Also I never once claimed that MO should be a genus only website, please don’t resort to strawmans, thanks.

By: Jacob Kalichman (Pulk)
2014-10-17 18:48:18 PDT (-0700)

Could you give an example of a lookalike bluing species and where a description of it might exist?

If not… the fact that there might be cryptic species within the current definition of P. cinctulus does not mean every specimen that fits in it should now be relegated to just “Panaeolus”. I assume sequencing like Alan has done would quickly expose thousands of cryptic species all over the map… Is MO supposed to be a genus-only website?

Others species in…
By: Byrain
2014-10-17 18:27:36 PDT (-0700)

sect. Laevispora & Verricuspora, what do the spores look like and what size are they? What do the cheilocystidia look like? Sulphidia present? Not all the P. cinctulus sequences appear to be the same, see here.


Blue bruising is not conclusive.

Example lookalike?
By: Jacob Kalichman (Pulk)
2014-10-15 10:08:07 PDT (-0700)

Created: 2014-10-14 11:37:04 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2014-10-17 22:20:18 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 87 times, last viewed: 2016-10-26 18:17:21 PDT (-0700)
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