Observation 188118: Amanita elliptosperma G.F. Atk.

When: 2014-11-11

Collection location: Juliana Trail, Longview, Gregg Co, Texas, USA [Click for map]

Who: L G Price (LG_Price)

Specimen available

Collected in the NE woods off side clearcut. White Amanita with intact volva and partial veil. The cap was smooth with no universal veil remnants. Total length about 7 inches. Width of cap about 3.75 inches. Thick cap tapering to edges. White flesh in cap and stem. Gills slightly cream colored. Wide bulbous base. Thickness at thickest part of bulb was 2 inches. Thickness of stipe just above the bulb was 1 inch.

Gill connection to stem is free ( see photos ) and I can see short gills near the edges of the cap (photo). The gills are close. Some volva material had fallen off but most was still attached, see photos.

No significant smell.

Impressive looking mushroom, under mature Short-needled Pine and Tupelo.

I am making a spore print. I may try to dry a segment of the stem and cap.


KOH 5% – photo – full sunlight
KOH 5% – photo – in shadow with flash

Proposed Names

56% (1)
Eye3 Eyes3
Used references: Mushroom Expert.com, Amanitaceae.org

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
Thanks L.G.
By: groundhog
2014-11-26 05:38:21 JST (+0900)

This material has been received and accessioned to Rod’s herbarium. We have also scheduled it for DNA sequencing.
Naomi (working with RET)

Will send
By: L G Price (LG_Price)
2014-11-15 22:57:07 JST (+0900)

The specimens are dry. I plan to send on monday but need instructions, address – is there a link on Amanitaceae.org for these?

The dryer is turned off so I may run it on the lowest setting Sunday night to pull out any moisture picked up from sitting in the dryer without it on.

Plan to put each into zip locks with some cushioning. I should have no problem with making a reasonable mailing package.

Linda Gail

Despite the failed yellow reaction…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-15 00:42:48 JST (+0900)

the spores make me think of suballiacea. Here’s my data from the website:

[97/5/4] (7.2-) 8.0 – 10.5 (-11.5) × 6.5 – 8.8 (-9.2) μm, (L = 8.7 – 10.1 μm; L’ = 9.1 μm; W = 7.2 – 8.0 μm; W’ = 7.5 μm; Q = (1.04-) 1.11 – 1.39 (-1.50); Q = 1.20 – 1.28; Q’ = 1.22)

Your measurements are a pretty good fit. It’s going to take a while to do it, but we should try to get DNA from this collection.

Very best,


Spore Sizes for Specimen
By: L G Price (LG_Price)
2014-11-14 14:57:19 JST (+0900)

I measured 20 spores and came up with the following ranges.

L (-)8.0-10.0(-), W (-)6.5-8.0)(-8.5), Q (1.07-)1,12-1.43)(-1.46)

Mean L=9.1, W=7.2, Q=1.27

These value don’t match published measurements for Amanita elliptosperm but are also not out of the ball park either.

NOTE: Measurement accuracy was only made to a half a micron. I don’t think I could be more precise than that.

You’re welcome.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-13 09:53:58 JST (+0900)

Good luck.


drying Amanita
By: L G Price (LG_Price)
2014-11-13 09:45:07 JST (+0900)

Thanks for the instructions. I will file these for later mushrooms. These are cut as they are cut.

It seems like I should have dry mushrooms sometime tomorrow. I should probably start looking at spore prints.

“How dry is it, Johhny?”
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-13 04:13:59 JST (+0900)

In my experience, you should cut the cap of a large Amanita into six pieces or so (pie slices) after separating it from the stem. The stem should be sliced vertically into four pieces. The bigger the mushroom, the more cutting. A small species of section Vaginatae (mostly notoriously thin caps and and hollow stems) may not need to be cut. If you have a whole mushroom or mushroom sliced in half from top to bottom (cap parts still connected to stem parts), one test of “dry enough” is that you have NO FLEXIBILITY at the point where cap and stem meet. If you can bend it, it’s not dry. Another test is to leave the supposedly dried specimen for a short time the dryest place in the house, then check to see if moisture from inside the mushroom has made the mushroom flexible again (i.e., you’d only gotten the surface dry previously).

I place my dryer in my herbarium and let the air conditioning and the dehumidifier fight it out with the dryer. Air conditioned air has had quite a bit of water wrung out of it. When the dryer heats the cooled air, the heated air is dryer still and sucks up moisture from the mushrooms in the dryer. The airconditioning unit objects to the rise in temperature and cools the air (with water going out the drain pipe to show that it is disposing of the water that the dryer is putting into the air). After they fight overnight, most medium to small mushrooms are dry as the desert.

Very best,


KOH test results and sticky measuring paper tape and drying
By: L G Price (LG_Price)
2014-11-13 00:19:22 JST (+0900)

KOH RESULTS: I added two images that show the results of the KOH test. I could be I just don’t know what to expect.

The sample was indented where the KOH touched. Also, where it was touched “bruised” a darker shade of the cap color. The cap color has darkened from when I first saw it. The “yellow” is the same shade as the darker areas at the edge where it was cut and along the edge of the cap.

TAPE: I use a sticky paper tape called “Peel n Stick” by therm-0-web, www.thermowebonline.com. I purchase the tape very cheaply from Amazon. Each roll is 1/2 inch by 10 yards. I have been using this for several months and have only used about 1 yard. I tear off a 1 inch piece, a 2 inch piece and a 7-8 inch piece and then stick them back to roll. I can quickly get the length I want and then just stick it back on the roll. Eventually there is so much mushroom, wood, dirt on the back of a strip to need a new piece, but I use each piece many times before I discard it.

DRYING – I put the “elliptosperma” into the dryer. I had the dryer on 95 F but moved it up to 105 F.
I am using a Nesco Food and Jerky dehydrator. This is the first time I’ve used it. ( nature has not co-operated with me getting a sample for D Lewis.)

How long do you think to fully dry it? 2-3 days is what I remember D. Lewis recommending.

I like your flexible measuring device. I print and use paper rulers.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-12 22:24:35 JST (+0900)

In order to compute the ratio of marginal striation length to cap radisu (very useful in some sections of Amanita), you need to measure cap diameter along a curved surface. The aforesaid ratio is very useful in taxonomy of sect. Vaginatae, for example.

Have I sent you the “workbook” PDF that Cristina Rodriguez-Caycedo and I wrote?

Very best,


When the color change occurs, it is usually far from subtle.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-12 22:20:33 JST (+0900)

On the other hand, sometimes one mushroom will not comply with the general tendency to the color reaction. I have no idea why that is true.

I think it would be very interesting to try to get DNA from your material and see what that has to tell us. Dry it at around 110 deg. F (or a bit beyond the middle setting on a dryer without temperature calibration). Make sure it is thoroughly dry and don’t wait to long to dry it. The two relevant enemies of DNA are moisture (in an aging mushroom or an incompletely dried mushroom) and excessive heat in the dryer. So say those who teach me.

Also, the spores will have their own tale to tell.

Very best,


KOH test
By: L G Price (LG_Price)
2014-11-12 14:02:56 JST (+0900)

I put a few drops on piece of the cap ( on the top surface ). I can see an indentation where the KOH (5% solution) was placed. Whether it’s turned yellow is hard to say, if it has yellowed, it’s subtle. I have a very bright flashlight I used to look at it and I can’t be sure. Maybe it will be more obvious in the morning when I can take it out into the sunlight.

You’re assumptions about storage are correct.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-12 13:07:11 JST (+0900)

KOH is a strong base. If you get a little on your fingers wash it off with lots of water. Your fingers will feel slippery because it converts part of your near surface fat to soap. You don’t want much of that happening I’m sure. Rubber gloves or using a dropper bottle carefully will limit your exposure. Like any caustic household product, keep it away from your face. I would suggest that you only make up small quantities at one time.

When you put 5-10% KOH on a mushroom cap or stem (there are color changes with boletes and other mushrooms, too) you may notice that the flesh becomes depressed in the exposed area.

Very best,


By: L G Price (LG_Price)
2014-11-12 12:19:53 JST (+0900)

OK, I read the MSDS. It seems the 3-5% solution needs caution like many household caustic products.

I assume it can be stored in a plastic bottle, closed with a top with a rubber stopper, or maybe not the rubber stopper.


By: L G Price (LG_Price)
2014-11-12 12:00:13 JST (+0900)

KOH is caustic? I need to wear rubber gloves? It will dye my fingers or rot them off?

Watch your fingers with the KOH.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-12 11:50:05 JST (+0900)

I operate in the 5-10% range of concentration for the speed of the yellowing reaction. However, a more dilute solution (say 3%) will just be slower.

Contamination is not a problem if you dry multiple collections at once. Just be sure that you keep the material of two different collections (even of what is apparently the same species) separated from each other by a little space or some folded papers (maybe with your field notes or tentative IDS written on them).

With regard to spore measurements, I have no idea if you’ve read the spore measurement “teaching topic” that is on the upper left hand corner of taxon pages on www.amanitaceae.org (WAO, pronounced “WOW” following the pronunciation of TAO). Following that method will be the way to be most likely to have your spore measurements be most similar to those on the WAO site.

Very best,


The cap of suballiacea often turns yellow with a strong base…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-12 11:25:37 JST (+0900)

for example, 5% KOH solution.

I have never seen that reaction in A. elliptosperma.

Another thought.

Very best,


I suggest that you also consider Amanita suballiacea.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2014-11-12 11:23:05 JST (+0900)

You can separate it from elliptosperma by spore size and shape. Also, the bulky appearance of your material reminds me of collections of suballiacea that I have been sent from Arkansas and other places in the SE U.S.


Despite the name, many people say that they do not detect an odor of garlic from suballiacea. I think that Murrill must have been comparing his suballiacea to some other physical characteristic of A. alliacea. However, they are not even in the same section of the genus Amanita.

Good luck with the spores.

Very best,


Created: 2014-11-12 09:42:19 JST (+0900)
Last modified: 2018-01-06 03:43:26 JST (+0900)
Viewed: 99 times, last viewed: 2018-01-06 04:00:06 JST (+0900)
Show Log