Observation 198245: Xylaria Hill ex Schrank
When: 2014-12-31
No herbarium specimen

Proposed Names

16% (4)
Recognized by sight
82% (5)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight: There used to be a genus Penzigia that included Xylaria like this, but molecular evidence shows that they are actually Xylaria, and that the penzigioid forms are not related; it is a morphological form present across the tree of Xylaria. I’m sure that there are lots of species like this that I am unfamiliar with in the neotropics, but this reminds me of Xylaria berteroi a bit.
-76% (4)
Recognized by sight
-95% (4)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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agreed…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2015-02-20 21:46:02 PST (-0800)

im trying to stay off MO when im “hammered.”
it’s just so damn hard and much more fun…until the next day when you realize you made an ass of yourself. ;)

i want to make a t-shirt that reads…

“dont drink and mushroomobserver”

are you listening Nathan (cough, cough)??

Thanks!
By: Roo Vandegrift (Werdnus)
2015-02-20 15:08:59 PST (-0800)

I missed that last comment when it went up. I really appreciate the apology, thank you. I think we’ve all been hammered on the internet at some point: dangers of the modern world. There’s obviously a lot we can learn from each other, and I look forward to many good conversations about IDs with you in the future.

sticks foot in mouth…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2015-02-11 18:17:16 PST (-0800)

from: Jack Rogers
reply-to: XXX
to: RJK
date: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 4:27 PM
subject: Re: Daldinia or Xylaria?
mailed-by: wsu.edu

“Dear Rich:

After asking you to send material of the fungus, I re-read your message and suspect that you have no material. The fungus is definitely a Xylaria. probably X. heliscus or close to it. I would need to see the ascospores to be sure. Cordially, Jack Rogers"

i apologize for doubting you.
i was obviously hammered and know nothing about Xylaria.

Also…
By: Roo Vandegrift (Werdnus)
2015-02-07 23:35:47 PST (-0800)

To back up my thought that this is a Penzigioid Xylaria, I should give a couple of reference:

The paper that un-does the genus Penzigia: Ju, Y. M., & Rogers, J. D. (2001). Xylaria cranioides and Poronia pileiformis and their anamorphs in culture, and implications for the status of Penzigia. Mycological Research, 105(09), 1134-1136.

And a good paper to sum-up the gross morphology and the micro-morphology of this group of fungi: Ju, Y. M., Hsieh, H. M., Rogers, J. D., Fournier, J., Jaklitsch, W. M., & Courtecuisse, R. (2012). New and interesting penzigioid Xylaria species with small, soft stromata. Mycologia, 104(3), 766-776.

Here’s the introductory section describing the rough morphology of the major complexes of Penzigioid Xylaria:

“Penzigioid Xylaria species can be grouped roughly into five morphological groups. Xylaria cranioides and its likes constitute the first group, the X. cranioides aggregate, which is characterized by large to medium-sized, spherical, hemispherical to pulvinate stromata, a plane stromatal surface and a thick, carbonaceous stromatal crust overlain with a whitish or light, finely cracked outer layer. The second group includes penzigioid species of the X. polymorpha (Pers.: Fr.) Grev. aggregate, featuring a dark brown, finely cracked outer layer and a wrinkled or undulate stromatal surface. Notable species are X. globosa (Spreng.: Fr.) Mont. and X. haemorrhoidalis Berk. & Broome. The third group harbors penzigioid species of the X. cubensis (Mont.) Fr. aggregate. Their stromata are pulvinate to peltate, lacking an outer layer at maturity. Xylaria berteri (Mont.) Cooke is probably the most frequently encountered penzigioid species of this group. The fourth group encompasses certain members of the X. arbuscula Sacc. aggregate, such as X. xylarioides (Speg.) Hladki & A.I. Romero and X. papillata Syd. & P. Syd., which have stromata characterized by a sterile stromatal apex and an ochraceous brown to light, striped or patchy persisting outer layer. The fifth group is the X. frustulosa (Berk. & M.A. Curtis) Cooke aggregate, including X. frustulosa, X. sibirica Y.-M. Ju et al. and others featuring small, discoid stromata that are in general less than 5 mm diam, have a thin, soft crust and a continuous stromatal surface. It should be noted that species of an aggregate are not necessarily closely related phylogenetically.”

Assumptions
By: Roo Vandegrift (Werdnus)
2015-02-07 22:32:57 PST (-0800)

I try not to make assumptions, and I apologize for making them about your votes.

I am honestly really curious what makes you certain that this is a Hypoxylon and certain that it is not a Xylaria. I am doing my doctoral dissertation on the family, and am interested to learn anything I can about them, and would very much like to know if my concepts of these genera are in error. Can provide more information please?

funny…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2015-02-07 19:43:18 PST (-0800)

I was wondering the same thing about you.

Please, don’t assume I might be, being dishonest.

Also: on the voting system
By: Roo Vandegrift (Werdnus)
2015-02-07 16:53:07 PST (-0800)

Also, with regards to the voting system here on MO: The idea is that the community can develop a consensus through honest opinions about the likelihood that a given observation is a particular taxon. Voting with certainty, either for or against a name, just to change the position of the consensus vote goes strongly against the intent of the system, and is ethically questionable.

Richard
By: Roo Vandegrift (Werdnus)
2015-02-07 16:49:51 PST (-0800)

I appreciate your level of certainty, but what makes you think that this might be a Hypoxylon? My experience of both Hypoxylon and Annulohypoxylon does not include uniformly white flesh inside the stromata, nor the constricted base (stipe) that this observation displays. Also, neither do Hypoxylon and the like have the exterior surface with scales composed of remnants of the conidial layer. These are traits of the genus Xylaria, and the short, round form is what is known as Penzigioid. If you are in contact with Dr. Rogers, he will verify these things.

Richard…
By: Susanne Sourell (suse)
2015-02-07 13:35:45 PST (-0800)

Collections need a permit of Conselho Nacional de Desenvolvimento Científico e Tecnológico (CNPq). Without the necessary papers it is not possible to make collections. I have made a note that Dr. Rogers would be interested in receiving specimen in case I would be allowed to make collections in the future.

Suse…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2015-02-07 13:17:54 PST (-0800)

I don’t suppose you collected this, or can collect it?

I just spoke with Dr. Rogers at WSU regarding this observation and he would like to take a look at a collection.

Thanks Roo
By: Susanne Sourell (suse)
2015-02-07 11:11:51 PST (-0800)

For sharing your knowledge!

Created: 2015-02-07 10:32:28 PST (-0800)
Last modified: 2015-02-11 18:15:21 PST (-0800)
Viewed: 240 times, last viewed: 2016-11-16 11:25:20 PST (-0800)
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