Observation 199383: Amanita Pers.
When: 2015-02-19
0 Sequences

Small single fruiting body fungi in Eucalyptus forest soil with ground covered in leaves and debris. Area semi rainforest and open to sunlight. Cap off white and in small areas tending towards light brown when held up to daylight. Small bulbous base, partial veil and close gills (white). Stipe felt hollow to touch and without usual brown markings but, showing markings above the veil and extending to top of stipe.

Proposed Names

29% (1)
Recognized by sight
53% (3)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight
47% (2)
Recognized by sight: Bulbous non-rooting stipe base featuring scant volval deposits.
47% (2)
Recognized by sight: appendiculate cap margin. See comment.

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
Just ran across an MO post of a North American species…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-03-05 07:17:34 PST (-0800)

Amanita canescens, that reminded me of this observation. I was surprised to see that A. canescens is placed in section Lepidella, because my first impression was that it looked like something from Validae… for some of the same reasons that I had proposed Validae for this obs.

Yes, that’s a good example.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-02-21 15:15:38 PST (-0800)

The same thing happens with A. flavoconia and small individual fruiting bodies of other taxa in the Validae as they start to age or get a little dry in situ. Cap margin striation is directly related to the thinness of the cap tissue near the cap margin. As the cap expands and begins to dry the tissue becomes thinner and the striations appear.

The only exceptions to a striate cap margin in sect. Amanita are species with really robust specimens (with flesh rather thick almost all the way to the cap margin). This can happen in commons species such as the larger taxa in the muscarioid group.

Very best,


Okay. Thanks, Rod.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-02-21 13:19:36 PST (-0800)

Observing how short gill terminate is something I should pay more attention to. Glancing through my photos I don’t see many that provide this info. But I do notice a ~90 degree angle at point of termination for at least some lamellulae, sect. Vaginatae and Caesareae. Also, some of my sect. Lepidella photos show the much less abrupt tapering. When the gills are spaced very closely it can be difficult to observe this trait. Point of emphasis for future photo-ops.

As for the relation between striations and subgenus, I can’t off-hand think of many types from subgenus Amanita that completely lack observable true striations, at least on mature specimens. Exceptions… muscaria types (occasionally), and…?

But I have seen examples from Validae and Pahlloideae with cap margin grooved, perhaps because the mature cap material has sunk/compressed down between the gills below. Here’s a nice example. obs 138822

About the striate margins and truncate short gills…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-02-21 11:47:54 PST (-0800)

I should be clearer about the exceptions.

There are striate margins on several taxa in section Amidella as you know, and there is one species in section Validae in Africa with a striate cap margin.

There are lots of truncate short gills in sect. Amidella and in species such as bisporigera in sect. Phalloideae.

So it is risky business blindly relying on Gilbert’s old “rule.”

Very best,


I agree that sect. Phalloideae does not seem a likely home for this mushroom.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-02-21 11:42:57 PST (-0800)

I was looking at the cap margin and thinking maybe there had been a slightly projecting “sterile margin” on the cap. And, if that were the case, I was wondering whether the volval bits on the margin make the margin appendiculate, etc. I think there is some possibility for sect. Lepidella here.

Oh, well, maybe we’ll be able to figure it out.

Very best,


I see what you mean about the short gills.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-02-21 11:36:04 PST (-0800)

In profile one observes tapering.

Nice trait to learn on a snowy afternoon. I’ll take a look at some of my own photos and begin to grok the correlation. Thanks!

Just revised my previous comment…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-02-21 11:29:31 PST (-0800)

while you were posting your last one, Rod. I included some reasons why I doubted section Lepidella.

In particluar…
the stipe surface seems out of character for Validae, minute flocculence below and denser patches above the ring. This causes me to consider sect. Lepidella. However, the cap surface doesn’t look like Lepidella to me… too smooth, and it looks like the cuticle may be (partially) peeled.

Phalloidae? I’d expect to see more volval structure.

Another thing that sometimes suggests subgenus Lepidella
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-02-21 11:13:55 PST (-0800)

is the fact that the short gills are not squarely truncate (at leas most of the ones that I can see are not). Both the marginal striations and the shape of the short gills are not sure-fire identifying characters as they were once thought to be by Gilbert and others. Still if you are going to make a guess from pictures, you might as well look at lots of characters.

Very best,


Rod, that’s one trait which I failed to mention…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-02-21 09:52:51 PST (-0800)

but, yes, the lack of striations supports Validae. Mostly, aside from not exhibiting any obvious rubescence, the shape/structure of the stipe base brings A. rubescens types to my mind.

But the stipe surface seems out of character for Validae, minute flocculence below and denser patches above the ring. This causes me to consider sect. Lepidella. However, the cap surface doesn’t look like Lepidella to me… too smooth, and it looks like the cuticle may be (partially) peeled.

Phalloidae? I’d expect to see more volval structure.

By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-02-21 07:50:55 PST (-0800)

Are you going with section Validae because of the absence of marginal striations on the cap?


Hi, Ian.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-02-21 07:47:56 PST (-0800)

I got your separate email on the subject of accident under terrible conditions while shooting in the field. I’ve done stuff like that under less demanding conditions.

I’m going to for Amanita because of the distinct remnants of the gill edge tissue on the upper stipe and the top of the partial veil. There are also dark dashes around the edge of the partial veil on the underside. That looks like (maybe) dirt clinging to universal veil (?). It’s quite common in sections with a partial veila and a friable volva to have remnants of the internal limb of the volva decorating the underside of the partial veil in this sort of manner. The gills seem to be attached to the stipe; however, this can happen in Amanita (rather commonly in some sections) despite the statements to the contrary in field guides.

I would certainly be interested in examining the specimen if that is possible.

Very best,


Pixelation problem

Rod, You are spot on with your comment. In the heavy rain and trying to hold an umbrella I accidentally moved the manual F/stop setting from f35 TO f3.5 AND BECAUSE I WAS SHOOTING WITH A REMOTE TRIGGER I DIDNT NOTICE THE CHANGE, WHICH WAS A DRASTIC DROP IN DEPTH OF fIELD. I have redone the images to correct the distortion but the DOF cant be corrected. Unfortunately more than half the images taken were at F3.5 instead of F35. GGRRRRR.

See what you mean, Rod.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-02-20 21:12:15 PST (-0800)

Most easily noted in the cap surface photo. Maybe a problem with loading? If so, then making a new observation using the same photos may produce a better result.

Is there a problem with the images?
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-02-20 19:59:03 PST (-0800)

There seems to be an odd sort of pixelation.


The fluting/scalloped
By: Daniel B. Wheeler (Tuberale)
2015-02-20 17:05:46 PST (-0800)

edge of the cap may yield a species. There are volvol patches on the cap. Hope R.E.T. sees this.

Created: 2015-02-20 13:16:43 PST (-0800)
Last modified: 2015-03-05 12:30:12 PST (-0800)
Viewed: 200 times, last viewed: 2017-06-19 19:53:13 PDT (-0700)
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