Observation 203582: Amanita Pers.

When: 2015-03-24

Collection location: Archbold Biological Station, Venus, Florida, USA [Click for map]

Who: Jacob Kalichman (Pulk)

No specimen available

under Quercus geminata.

Proposed Names

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


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So far, bisporigera is the only North American white destroying angel with …
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-04-30 10:57:37 JST (+0900)

2-spored basidia. As noted previously there are several other white destroying angels. These have 4-spored basidia. There is variation in spore shape and size that helps with ID in some cases (e.g., A. suballiacea).

The only color change reaction that I know of with the white destroying angels is the yellow response to a basic aqueous solution, such as a 5-10% solution of KOH.

Amanita submaculata has a virgate gray to brownish gray cap and a large partial veil that drops from the gills in stages so that it has the appearance of a nineteenth Century ball gown. Also, submaculata usually has a distinct odor of apples (or rarely of anise, or very rarely of a new rubber automobile tires).

There are pure white and nonrubescent taxa in the Validae in the SE U.S.A. Amanita media has rather narrow spores. Amanita maryaliceae, when fresh and incompletely expanded, has a translucent appearance instead of being white.

David, truncate short gills in Amanita is a blunt taxonomic tool especially if the only truncate short gills are the very shortest ones. There are too many caveats. When spores are inamyloid, short gills are often truncate and cap margins (except on robust species/specimens) are fairly often striate.

When an amanita has amyloid spores, short gills can be truncate (section Amidella, a number of species in section Phalloideae). The shape of short gills should not be use in a formal and minimal definition of a taxomic group in Amanita. It can help with an ID if it is supported by other observed characters. If it is causing confusion, I suggest letting it sink back into the background of interesting characters that are not of primary use in determining material.

In the present case, a specimen could probably help resolve matters. Otherwise, I think we’re probably not going to come to a conclusion to which we can assign a high confidence.

Very best,


By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2015-04-30 07:14:56 JST (+0900)

I see nothing at the link you’ve provided that says A. bisporigera stains. Correct me if I am wrong. I like to learn. Arguing, not so much. According to Rod’s Amanita page “This page contains a mixture of species that are presently being separated by genetic studies.”

By: Richard Kneal (bloodworm)
2015-04-30 05:49:52 JST (+0900)

wrong. again.

your overconfidence is mind-boggling to me…

By: Jacob Kalichman (Pulk)
2015-04-30 05:37:02 JST (+0900)

You do well to suggest unideal fb extraction. It was very difficult to get these out intact base-wise. Tissue is missing.

Amanita bisporigera
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2015-04-30 05:28:56 JST (+0900)

We can rule out Amanita bisporigera since that species is stark white and lacks staining.

By: Richard Kneal (bloodworm)
2015-04-30 05:12:28 JST (+0900)

not doubting Pulk’s observation at all…
but, it is sometimes difficult to maintain that volval limb when pulling these out of sandy soil…especially, when you are unfamiliar with the species.

Herb, Validae was the other thing…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-04-30 04:50:05 JST (+0900)

that crossed my mind.

Checked the description of bisporigera a couple hours ago, and noticed the reference to truncate short gills. Still learning how to use this trait as a means of supporting section. Thanks for the further clarification, Rod.

Short gills for submaculata are listed as possibly truncate.

These look like the stipe bases had been buried in grainy sand. So I wonder if a limbate volva may have been quickly eroded by the abrasive substrate?

By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2015-04-30 04:04:59 JST (+0900)

There appears to be a grey color to the volval material; along the edge on the annulus in the bottom photo (specimen furthest left). This combined with the staining makes me think Amanita sect. Validae may be more appropriate for this observation. Perhaps Amanita submaculata or something close to it.

I agree with you, David.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-04-30 01:51:59 JST (+0900)

On the one specimen with a clear view of the top of the bulb, I do not see a volval limb. There are taxa with truncate short gills in the Phalloideae (e.g., A. bisporigera). It is the absence of a limb that caught my eye.

Very best,


Seemingly interesting traits…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-04-29 21:13:37 JST (+0900)

include brown staining on the lower stipe (although possibly due to being buried), brown stain on the annulus, and short gills that appear truncate. I hesitate to propose “section Phalloideae” despite the gestalt suggesting this.

Created: 2015-04-29 16:07:13 JST (+0900)
Last modified: 2015-04-30 10:58:25 JST (+0900)
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