Observation 21306: Amanita franchetii sensu Dav. T. Jenkins
When: 2009-05-18
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Found scattered in approximately 15 ft circum. area, in grass field with some large hardwood trees. Creamy yellow veil under pileus. Pileus splitting with age. Buttons approx. 2 cm, maturing at about 7 cm. Bright yellow pileus, but fading with exposure to sun. Continued to appear for about a week.

Proposed Names

15% (2)
Used references: Miller & Miller, North American Mushrooms (2006); see also W. Roody, Mushrooms of West Virginia and the Central Appalachians
28% (1)
Used references: Wondering about the use of the name “franchetii” as applied to NA material.

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
Thanks for your comments on the checklist and …
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-05-26 15:22:16 BRT (-0300)


You swam into the deep end of the pool. One of the things that the Amanita
Studies site tries to do is create a space in which the data of Tulloss and
Yang (site editors) can be aired. My private checklists are all getting
illustrated and posted as time allows. I hope that this creates a usable
entry for site users. They can come into the site through pictures


or they can come in the “front” door and use the alphabetical lists of
species organized by the (currently) seven sections of the genus. To get
links to these lists, you can access


and scan down to the links for all 7 sectional names. This occurs once in
the middle of plain text, but reoccurs (with thumbnails of representative
species) further down the page. Note that all taxa currently accepted in
the Amanitaceae (including Amarrendia, Torrendia, and Limacella) have
entries with little strings of thumbnail images. As of yet, there are no
pages for Limacella species; but Amarrendia and Torrendia are treated as
sequestrate elements of Amanita sect. Caesareae; and there are links to the
draft paper keying out the known species of sect. Caesareae under the
paragraphs for Amarrendia, Torrendia, and sect. Caesareae — in the little
entries with the thumbnails.

I hope that this is sort of clear. If you enter the site at
…/mainaman.html, you will find ways to navigate to all the major elements
of the site. You might want to explore the resources a little bit. For
example, there is a 25 page summary of Dr. Benjamin’s book on mushroom
poisoning. Under the “Methodology” heading there is a downloadable blank
copy of my field notes form along with examples of the form filled out for a
few taxa. Under the same heading there is the original English version of
an article that I wrote trying to cover my entire methodology for studying
Amanita. Dr. Yang and I are involved in combining both our methodologies
into a single large article. There also is a partial bibliography with MANY
references that may prove of interest.

I appreciate the way you have dealt with the present puzzle. It’s great
that you are working with your literature at hand, and not just taking
someone’s word for the ID of your pictures. I see you are preserving
specimens, also. (Do I have that correct?) This can support a lot of
interesting self-education in the future. When I started mycology, I
treated it like bird-watching. Then I realized that most of what I was
finding (especially amanitas) were not in the field guides. Boy did I ever
get led down a path that has kept me “entertained,” “busy,” etc. for more
than 30 years.

Very best,

Wow – there seems to be no bottom to myco knowledge!
By: John S. Harper (jsharper)
2009-05-26 14:07:12 BRT (-0300)

Rod – Thanks for the additional information and the link to the Pine Barrens lists – I was not familiar with that website. The specificity and number of unique observations logged there certainly makes me despair of confidently identifying specimens to sp. level. Maybe we need to have separate entry of genus and species on MO, so I can say "I’d call it that at the genus level, and make a list of likely suspects at the sp. level. But all this information must be a great resource for the real specialists and someday will advance the science. (That combined with the varying names – its getting to be unusual for any name I pick after looking at my several books is not a “deprecated” name).

For what its worth, heavy rains last night resulted in 2 more specimens of the same type appearing in the location this morning, on which the yellow of the pileus was quite washed out. Size was bit larger than the earlier specimens – maybe 8-10 cm diameter. If they survive to the afternoon, I’ll post a couple more pictures. The two closest trees are a evergreen (pine or fir?) and an oak (sorry – can be more specific than that about the trees – I’ll have to take time off from mushroom hunting to get better at tree identification too).

After seeing your new pictures…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-05-26 12:43:37 BRT (-0300)

There is an undescribed mushroom in the eastern US, which is called “A. franchetii” in Jenkins’ Amanita of North America and which is depicted on the cover of my copy of that book. In the most recent photographs I think I see clover leaves that improve my idea of scale of the mushrooms in those photographs. The mushrooms now seem to me a bit small for A. flavorubens (but small specimens can occur). On the other hand, the yellow-tan or orange-tan cap color is not common in flavorubens_, BUT it is common in what we could call "_franchetii sensu Jenkins." I’m sorry that I didn’t think of this option before.

In the checklist for New Jersey Pine Barrens species (found at

< http://eticomm.net/... >

and probably quite applicable in the Atlantic Coastal Plain and the Inner Coastal Plain of Maryland), both A. flavorubens and what I call “species 36” are illustrated. The latter is no. 106 in the list, and the former is no. 92. John, if you would like more information on “species 36” = “_franchetii sensu Jenkins,” I can make you a PDF of my rough notes on the species and email it to you.

Unfortunately, the varieties of A. flavoconia and (apparently) related taxa sometimes get pink spots on the bulb or lower stipe or in the context of the same parts of the mushroom. This is distinguishable from the wine-red color found in strongly bruised “flavorubens,” but I would agree that it is somewhat annoying in terms of field IDs! Off the top of my head, I can’t remember seeing the pink spot reaction in species 36. If I saw it, it will be mentioned in those notes.

In short, I’d suggest you consider “Amanita franchetii sensu Jenkins” as a possible ID for this material.

Very best,


Explanation for changed name to A. flavorubens
By: John S. Harper (jsharper)
2009-05-26 01:44:30 BRT (-0300)

On further research and after examining the pictures and disucssion at http://www.njcc.com/~ret/amanita/species/flavorub.html, I think this is probably A. flavorubens. That discussion does note the fading color of the pileus (attributed to rain, rather than sunbleach as I thought), and the variability of the color of the pileus. Several of the added uploaded pictures, (in close up view of base of stipe) do show a reddish brown color (and I don’t think it is an artifact of my computer color settings), though the color was not as obvious in the actual specimen when I examined it after collection. See pictures 44469 and 44470 in particular. The picture of A. flavoconia in Miller & Miller looks very similar to my specimens, but looks quite different from the picture in Roody under the same name – Roody’s specimen is much more bright orange.

A. flavorubescens or rubescens?
By: John S. Harper (jsharper)
2009-05-26 00:57:30 BRT (-0300)

Could be A. flavorubescens or rubescens, but I guessed falvoconia because it was smaller than the other alternatives as well flesh of cap does not stain red or wine when cut. Stipes had been much eaten by larval worms. Seemed a bit darkened at the base, possibly with a wine color, but it look like dirt to me instead. I agree that this does not look as orange as the specimen in Roody, and stipe was not orange, as in his illustration. I took some more pictures and have posted them, and collected a sample for herbarium.

Will it stain wine colored?
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-05-25 19:32:24 BRT (-0300)

The volva fades pretty quickly, and there’s some brown in the yellow once the mushroom get going. Maybe it was A. flavorubens? Just guessing.


Created: 2009-05-25 18:07:38 BRT (-0300)
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