Observation 216692: Humidicutis marginata var. olivacea (A.H. Sm. & Hesler) Singer

When: 2015-09-21

Collection location: Little Skookum, Mason Co., Washington, USA [Click for map]

Who: Steve (Lokness)

No specimen available

This sure looks like Humidicutis marginatus var. olivaceous whereas a previous Humidicutis that I posted and that was made into an observation here looks very different. I do not think they are the same specie.

Species Lists


Humiticutis marginatus olivaceus 1.jpg
A raged bunch, but striking stipe.
Humiticutis marginatus olivaceus 2.JPG
Humidicutis 9-21 (1).jpg
Adding better picture of underside – gills. Not the same group, but a single less than 2 feet away.

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
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Add Comment
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2016-01-23 20:07:53 CST (-0500)

Steve, That’s great you sent the specimen to Dr. Lodge. I am interested in reading her complete response. Does she have DNA from the type collection of H. marginata var. olivacea? If not, it seems more probable that your finds represent H. marginata var. olivacea sensu stricto., since you are close to the type locality. I created the group name as a way to separate western and eastern collections. When I added the name to your observation it was simply a way for me to conveniently access this observation later under the broader umbrella of a ‘group’ name.

Regarding the Hygrocybe conica group. This group appears to be much more diverse; and Hygrocybe conica as a group is not well defined. Color and viscosity appears to be variable, and may not be adequate criteria for grouping under the name ‘conica’. By putting all of the known sightings of H. conica group under Hygrocybe subsect. Hygrocybe it is easier to compare all of the members of this subsection. With more work we may be able to separate subsection Hygrocybe into groups/stirps, with better definitions. Best wishes.

Erlon (Herbert Baker) – spot on observation on your part!
By: Steve (Lokness)
2016-01-23 13:46:52 CST (-0500)

Moving my response back to Humidicutis: You are correct that this Humidicutis marginata var. olivacea looks different from the eastern observations – for instance the stipe is much greener. So far my two examples seem to be the only observation from the west coast for this variety on MO. I’ve added another picture this morning of this observation to better show what this mushroom is. The two observations on MO are from two different locations. Are the west coast examples different enough to be given separate identities from the east coast examples? Maybe DNA will tell? But for sure we need more observations!

Now to make things even more confusing – and this is all my fault as I struggled to learn the nuances of MO – I have two more observations here that I believe may be different species, sub-species, hybrids, or varieties other than – but close to H.marginata var. olivacea. (I’m going to destroy one of them) I’m not so proficient as to come to this conclusion on my own, but after a long arduous try to find what it was – samples were sent to Dr. Lodge in Puerto Rico. From the subject heading in her response; ….“From Shelton Washington – An unusual Humidicutis from Washington State Yes, it is Humidicutis, but no species match”. The email goes into detail as to why she reached this conclusion.

And thus the issue of using “group”. What does it mean? Here?

And also maybe a problem with “H.conic group”? Isn’t the analysis of the identity of the H.conica example beneficial? How does throwing them all in the same bucket move the clarification of this group forward? Will eventually the clarification through DNA clean up this very confusing group? Perhaps, but isn’t that only part of the process? The other part being to identify differences as they exist in the real world. Viscid stipe? Non-viscid stipe?

Respectively; Steve

Herbert Baker (Humidicutis marginatus var. olivaceous group)
By: Steve (Lokness)
2016-01-12 15:57:55 CST (-0500)

I see that a couple of weeks ago to this Observation and a second Observation of mine under Humidicutis marginatus var. olivaceous you added the designation “group” at the end. I do not disagree with your suggested change as they appear to be very different than the rest of this species observations which are all located on the east coast. However, I’m not convinced that the two observations I have here are the same species – or var.? They are in fact very different.

The challenge is to get MORE observations of this group from the west coast.

Created: 2015-09-21 21:45:30 CDT (-0400)
Last modified: 2016-01-23 12:31:55 CST (-0500)
Viewed: 110 times, last viewed: 2018-02-04 15:14:20 CST (-0500)
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