Observation 21878: Amanita Pers.
When: 2009-06-07
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Large Oaks nearby.

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Copyright © 2009 Erlon Bailey
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Copyright © 2009 Erlon Bailey

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Hi Rod
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2013-11-14 01:20:14 CET (+0100)

Thank you for your response. Is the name Amanita persicina still available for use? I know there is an invalid species(no latin description), from Australia with that name. Why not raise A. muscaria var. persicina now and if the invalidly named Dominican species turns out to be the same, combine it?

Good questions… I hope people read this item….
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-10-03 17:57:08 CEST (+0200)

“Should we consider these species nomen dubium?” – H. B.

Amanita muscaria var. fuligineoverrucosa Neville, Poumarat & B. Clément (2002)”
This is a synonym of A. muscaria. The darkened volval warts are (by data in the original description) caused by invasion of a dark-walled hyphomycete. The name has no taxnomic value because it describes an environmentally caused character difference. The name is valid, but a synonym.

Amanita muscaria var. heterochroma (S. Curreli) Contu (2000)”
This is a good species on its own. (See Amanita Studies web site.) It has distinct color differences. The spores are typical of a taxon evolving in sandy soil in an environment with distinct dry and rainy seasons — spores more elongate than in other muscarioid taxa (with the exceptions of taxa occurring in similar habitat). The same statement applies to A. gioiosa.

“Amanita muscaria var. inzengae Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
Neville and Poumarat failed to make a strong enough case for this “variety.” Given their data, I would agree that is at least different from A. muscaria var. muscaria at the rank of variety. Its proper rank needs to be re-evaluated.

Amanita muscaria f. vaginata (Velen.) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
This is an environmentally caused variation and not of taxonomic value. The name should be considered a synonym of A. muscaria.

Amanita muscaria f. guessowii (Veselý) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
If Geml’s data does not change when a larger geographic sampling is sequenced, this name will be a synonym of Amanita amerimuscaria Tulloss & Geml nom. prov.

“Amanita muscaria f. flavivolvata (Singer) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
The creation of this combination is an example of an unwarranted assumption about North American material made by Neville and Poumarat. This name will be a synonym of Amanita amerimuscaria Tulloss & Geml nom. prov.

Amanita muscaria f. europaea Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
AND
Amanita muscaria var. aureola Kalchbr. (1873)”
This name is a synonym of A. muscaria. It describes a color variant produced by delayed production of the purple pigment (a betapurpurin) in muscaria (immature button is yellow or orange, but the mature specimen becomes bright red as usual) or a curious failure to distribution the purple pigment equally in the pileipellis (alternating sectors of the pileus are red and yellow). Illustrations of the odd variations are illustrated in old plates reproduced in Neville and Poumarat’s 2004 tome “Amaniteae.” The same type of argument applies to f. “europaea.”

The attempt by Neville and Poumarat to force fit their names on old plates…is not meaningful since one cannot examine the warts on an old plate to see if there is a dark hyphomycete growing in them.

R.

Good questions… I hope people read this item….
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-10-03 17:53:43 CEST (+0200)

“Should we consider these species nomen dubium?” – H. B.

Amanita muscaria var. fuligineoverrucosa Neville, Poumarat & B. Clément (2002)”
This is a synonym of A. muscaria. The darkened volval warts are (by data in the original description) caused by invasion of a dark-walled hyphomycete. The name has no taxnomic value because it describes an environmentally caused character difference. The name is valid, but a synonym.

Amanita muscaria var. heterochroma (S. Curreli) Contu (2000)”
This is a good species on its own. (See Amanita Studies web site.) It has distinct color differences. The spores are typical of a taxon evolving in sandy soil in an environment with distinct dry and rainy seasons — spores more elongate than in other muscarioid taxa (with the exceptions of taxa occurring in similar habitat). The same statement applies to A. gioiosa.

“Amanita muscaria var. inzengae Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
Neville and Poumarat failed to make a strong enough case for this “variety.” Given their data, I would agree that is at least different from A. muscaria var. muscaria at the rank of variety. Its proper rank needs to be re-evaluated.

Amanita muscaria f. vaginata (Velen.) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
This is an environmentally caused variation and not of taxonomic value. The name should be considered a synonym of A. muscaria.

Amanita muscaria f. guessowii (Veselý) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
If Geml’s data does not change when a larger geographic sampling is sequenced, this name will be a synonym of Amanita amerimuscaria Tulloss & Geml nom. prov.

“Amanita muscaria f. flavivolvata (Singer) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
The creation of this combination is an example of an unwarranted assumption about North American material made by Neville and Poumarat. This name will be a synonym of Amanita amerimuscaria Tulloss & Geml nom. prov.

Amanita muscaria f. europaea Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
AND
Amanita muscaria var. aureola Kalchbr. (1873)”
This name is a synonym of A. muscaria. It describes a color variant produced by delayed production of the purple pigment (a betapurpurin) in muscaria (immature button is yellow or orange, but the mature specimen becomes bright red as usual) or a curious failure to distribution the purple pigment equally in the pileipellis (alternating sectors of the pileus are red and yellow). Illustrations of the odd variations are illustrated in old plates reproduced in Neville and Poumarat’s 2004 tome “Amaniteae.” The same type of argument applies to f. “europaea.”

The attempt by Neville and Poumarat to force fit their names on old plates…is not meaningful since one cannot examine the warts on an old plate to see if there is a dark hyphomycete growing in them.

R.

Good questions… I hope people read this item….
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-10-03 17:53:20 CEST (+0200)

“Should we consider these species nomen dubium?” – H. B.

Amanita muscaria var. fuligineoverrucosa Neville, Poumarat & B. Clément (2002)”
This is a synonym of A. muscaria. The darkened volval warts are (by data in the original description) caused by invasion of a dark-walled hyphomycete. The name has no taxnomic value because it describes an environmentally caused character difference. The name is valid, but a synonym.

Amanita muscaria var. heterochroma (S. Curreli) Contu (2000)”
This is a good species on its own. (See Amanita Studies web site.) It has distinct color differences. The spores are typical of a taxon evolving in sandy soil in an environment with distinct dry and rainy seasons — spores more elongate than in other muscarioid taxa (with the exceptions of taxa occurring in similar habitat). The same statement applies to A. gioiosa.

“Amanita muscaria var. inzengae Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
Neville and Poumarat failed to make a strong enough case for this “variety.” Given their data, I would agree that is at least different from A. muscaria var. muscaria at the rank of variety. Its proper rank needs to be re-evaluated.

Amanita muscaria f. vaginata (Velen.) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
This is an environmentally caused variation and not of taxonomic value. The name should be considered a synonym of A. muscaria.

Amanita muscaria f. guessowii (Veselý) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
If Geml’s data does not change when a larger geographic sampling is sequenced, this name will be a synonym of Amanita amerimuscaria Tulloss & Geml nom. prov.

“Amanita muscaria f. flavivolvata (Singer) Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
The creation of this combination is an example of an unwarranted assumption about North American material made by Neville and Poumarat. This name will be a synonym of Amanita amerimuscaria Tulloss & Geml nom. prov.

Amanita muscaria f. europaea Neville & Poumarat (2002)”
AND
Amanita muscaria var. aureola Kalchbr. (1873)”
This name is a synonym of A. muscaria. It describes a color variant produced by delayed production of the purple pigment (a betapurpurin) in muscaria (immature button is yellow or orange, but the mature specimen becomes bright red as usual) or a curious failure to distribution the purple pigment equally in the pileipellis (alternating sectors of the pileus are red and yellow). Illustrations of the odd variations are illustrated in old plates reproduced in Neville and Poumarat’s 2004 tome “Amaniteae.” The same type of argument applies to f. “europaea.”

The attempt by Neville and Poumarat to force fit their names on old plates…is not meaningful since one cannot examine the warts on an old plate to see if there is a dark hyphomycete growing in them.

R.

Question..
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2009-10-03 16:13:40 CEST (+0200)

Should we consider these species nomen dubium?

Amanita muscaria var. fuligineoverrucosa Neville, Poumarat & B. Clément (2002)
Amanita muscaria var. heterochroma (S. Curreli) Contu (2000)
Amanita muscaria var. inzengae Neville & Poumarat (2002)
Amanita muscaria f. vaginata (Velen.) Neville & Poumarat (2002)
Amanita muscaria f. guessowii (Veselý) Neville & Poumarat (2002)
Amanita muscaria f. flavivolvata (Singer) Neville & Poumarat (2002)
Amanita muscaria f. europaea Neville & Poumarat (2002)
Amanita muscaria var. aureola Kalchbr. (1873)

Ok..
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2009-10-03 00:06:46 CEST (+0200)

i looked it up,
Amanita rubescens var. circinata is now called Ossicaulis lignatilis

Amanita circinatus appears to be a valid name

Amanita circinnata is now Amanita muscaria ;)

An odd coincidence they chose the name A. circinata, with it being so closely related to A. muscaria?..

Thanks..
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2009-10-02 22:24:51 CEST (+0200)

Ive found a few similar spellings, Amanita circinatus Schumach.,
Amanita circinnata Gray, and Amanita rubescens var. circinata Pers., what entities do these names represent?

I would love to see a color photo of “Amanita circinata”, i’ve only briefly read up on the microscopic features are they a good match for persicina?

Yes.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-10-02 22:08:10 CEST (+0200)

I need to correct my earlier note. The problem is that the name “circinata” is invalid. A variant spelling of the same name (with the same meaning) was published in the 19th Century. Jean Lodge and I have discussed whether to provide a new name for the D.R. species or to abandon it (if it biological entity is the same as that to which var. persicina is applied and if we decide to raise the epithet “persicina” to species rank in Amanita.

I’m tired. I hope that I’m making sense.

R.

Amanita circinata
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2009-06-18 23:39:44 CEST (+0200)

Is the name of the mushroom from the Caribbean Amanita circinata?

southern clade, etc.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-06-10 22:08:03 CEST (+0200)

The southeastern clade is PRECISELY var. persicina.

Yes, var. persicina should be raised to species rank and Dr. Geml and I will do
that. There are two problems at the moment. The most serious problem is that
Orson Miller and Jean Lodge named a species from the Caribbean region that seems awfully close to var. persicina. If it is a good species and is the same entity as var. persicina_, we may have to use a different name than "_persicina."

There is really no way that we can know if the Mass. item was a transplant. It
could have been a very red member of a yellow-orange-capped population.

I’d love to have some southern material of muscarioid taxa. What I have comes from southern Mississippi and eastern Texas.

There is still a chance
that Dr. Geml can sequence more material…so far as I know.

Very best,

Rod

Reply to RT regarding A. amerimuscaria
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2009-06-10 21:24:54 CEST (+0200)

Is it possible the southeast clad actually represents persicina?
Is this southeast clad more closely related to the Eurasian A. muscaria than it is to A. amerimuscaria?
Also, shouldnt persinica gets species status on account that it has at least three unique macroscopic characteristics that delineate it from other closely related species?
I assume the muscaria in Massachusetts was a transplant?
I can send you some samples this fall.

Yes, its looks fairly small.

In reply to HB…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-06-10 01:35:48 CEST (+0200)

The red amerimuscaria has been reported from Mississippi; however, all that I’ve collected there was A. muscaria var. persicina, which was rather common in the pine plantation from which amerimuscaria (red) was reported. I have had one collection of A. amerimuscaria from Massachusetts; however, A. muscaria also exists there in at least one landscape planting with Betula pendula.

The pretty little yellow feller looked kind of small. Do I have the right size perception there?

Very best,

Rod

Thank you
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-06-09 16:57:46 CEST (+0200)

Thank you. I’ll look forward to seeing the material. If the collector could put information with the material it would be helpful. Where was it found (park, town, county, state)? What trees were in the vicinity? Anything about size would help, too.

Very best,

R

Hi
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2009-06-09 15:41:19 CEST (+0200)

Hi Rod,
I’ll have the collector send a sample to you.
I had figured section Amanita also.. maybe part of the chemotoxic group that contains ibotenic acid?
Its a lovely pastel yellow, isnt it?

I have an idea neither the yellow nor red form of A. amerimuscaria occurs southeast of the central Appalachians.. from Texas east.

Probably in sect. Amanita
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2009-06-09 14:23:31 CEST (+0200)

I can’t name this one by sight.

R

Created: 2009-06-09 02:25:07 CEST (+0200)
Last modified: 2009-06-09 02:25:07 CEST (+0200)
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