Observation 22076: Amanita muscaria var. guessowii Veselý
When: 2009-06-11
No herbarium specimen

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Thanks for the link and info Herb!!
By: Charles Seltenright Sr (Shroomin Yooper)
2011-04-15 17:58:47 WIB (+0700)
Dan
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2011-04-15 15:11:13 WIB (+0700)

“Is “alternate name” the same as synonym?”

Yes.

Alternate name
By: Dan Molter (shroomydan)
2011-04-15 13:26:03 WIB (+0700)

This observation (15APR2011) says that “Amanita muscaria subsp. americana (J.E. Lange) Singer” is an alternate name for “Amanita muscaria var. guessowii Veselý”. Is “alternate name” the same as synonym, or is there a different concept in play here?

Mycologia 26 (1), 1934
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2011-04-14 20:18:45 WIB (+0700)

Here is the article in which Lange mentions it.

http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/...

I hope you can begin to feel as though I do actually contribute to this community, and do not simply try to police me and then ignore when I bring up valid points.

geographically disjunct
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2011-04-13 10:05:38 WIB (+0700)

I would consider them synonyms, and Geml’s cladogram seems to support an eastern subspecies(geographically disjunct population) at the least.

The subspecies rank is an important one, in which Dr. Singer recognized.

I didn’t create this combination out of thin air. It was Lange who originally said it was a matter of taste to consider the eastern yellow variety a species of its own, Singer later went on to create the subspecies combination based on Langes previous work.

Here are some citations of the name in print.

Amanita muscaria subsp. americana (Lange) Singer, (1951) page 386

Singer, R. (1949, publ. 1951). The ‘Agaricales’ (mushrooms) in modern taxonomy. Lilloa, Revista de Botánica 22: 1-832.

Index of Fungi 2: 72

Mycologia 65 (6): 1323, 1327.

Although Amanita muscaria var. guessowii was published earlier, I would think it an error not to recognize Dr. Singer’s subspecies rank as others like Dr. Guzman have.

Really don’t matter much anyway because when the new name is published, they will both be deprecated.

There are also some herbarium samples with this name attached to them.

http://sweetgum.nybg.org/...

I look forward to your response, Herb

OK
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2011-03-19 00:47:33 WIB (+0700)

If you recognize subsp. flavivolvata and subsp. muscaria then Dr. Singer’s intent should be clear.

I am my own ultimate authority. :)

.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2011-03-18 23:50:08 WIB (+0700)

I do indeed “get” that some of the American varieties have real differences from the originally described European muscaria, just that we don’t currently have a good name to use for them.

What is YOUR ultimate, current American amanita authority, if not IF, that caused you to place an old name on Dan’s yellow muscaria??

Hi again
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2011-03-18 23:27:20 WIB (+0700)

Its not the name of the week, its an important distinction, that your not recognizing.

neither is “americana” a currently valid name, in its correct spelling.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2011-03-18 23:25:14 WIB (+0700)

we all agree that there are some clearly different species within the muscaria group, from DNA as well as direct morphological observation. What we are debating are valid names. At this point, there really are none, but I think that it just confuses the issue to put up the name of the week.

Index Fungorum is not perfect, being a human construct and all, but it’s the best we have. What do YOU use as your authority?

Or better yet, publish some of your local amanita species, and then we can start using valid, published names for some of these recently DNA delimited North American muscaria species.

Hi
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2011-03-18 23:05:45 WIB (+0700)

subsp. ‘americanus’? Index fungorum isn’t the only nor most important source for data, especially for American species. I prefer to consider these eastern north american orange-yellow specimens as a disjunct population(subspecies), as Dr. Singer did.

These are clearly not Amanita muscaria subsp. muscaria.

Also, Rod isn’t including any specimens from eastern north America in his description of A. amerimuscaria.

A. muscaria subsp. americanus is not a valid name on Index Fungorum.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2011-03-18 22:38:16 WIB (+0700)

We are all waiting for new published names for these different genetic varieties, but we need to be patient.

I am also loathe to use Amanita amerimuscaria until it too gets published, god willin’ if the creek don’t rise.

Created: 2009-06-12 07:09:31 WIB (+0700)
Last modified: 2011-04-15 06:02:07 WIB (+0700)
Viewed: 283 times, last viewed: 2016-10-25 17:01:46 WIB (+0700)
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