Observation 222502: Amanita murrilliana Singer
When: 2015-11-10
Herbarium specimen reported

Proposed Names

28% (1)
Recognized by sight
-28% (1)
Recognized by sight
54% (1)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


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Hello, Sarah.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2016-02-21 13:09:13 PST (-0800)

The material is accessioned and in the herbarium. It is in the queue to be sampled for DNA sequencing. It has not yet been sampled for DNA or studied by microscope. I’ll send you a separate note.

Very best,


Hi Rod
By: Sarah Prentice
2016-02-21 12:36:29 PST (-0800)

I mailed you this dried specimen back in November. Any update? Thanks.

In response to David’s question, the two sections are “sister” taxa.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2016-02-15 14:27:44 PST (-0800)

That is, the hypotheses of the trees includes the proposal that the two sections have a common ancestor.


Basically, it depends on what one means by “basically.” EDITED
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2016-02-15 14:24:23 PST (-0800)

All of the species of the Caesareae have clamp connections on the bases of basidia. None of the Vaginatae have clamp connections on the bases of basidia. And, genetically they are two distinct groups.

They both have totally elongating stems and appear to have had a common ancestor.

The material on the stipe of calyptratoides that is under discussion is marked with raised lines on its upper/outer surface. This means that it was in direct contact with gills during development. Those lines are the share of the gill edge “velcro” that got left on the material that is on the top of the stipe in the photograph that Debbie kindly sent to me. So the material in question did cover the gill edges in early development and the gill edges separated from it in the manner that gill edges separate from a stipe and/or a partial veil.

I have drawings of calyptratoides stem sections (for example a January 1993 collection from Malibu Canyon) showing that an internal limb of the universal veil is at least sometimes present (if small) under the material that seems to me to play exactly the role in calyptratoides that a partial veil plays in other members of the Caesareae. This means that the material in question is at least partially separated from the stem during mushroom development. A characteristic of a partial veil.

I agree with you about the nearly spherical form of unopened buttons of calyptratoides. I have a drawing from life of a section of such a button (from the same Malibu Canyon collection). The internal limb of the volva is present under about the outer half of the devloping gills. That means it was between the stem and material that was attached to the gills. This also indicates that though that tissue is oddly structured, it was positioned exactly where a partial veil would be.

I think it is reasonable to call it a partial veil.

Very best,


Is there…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2016-02-15 14:15:42 PST (-0800)

molecular evidence that supports “closeness” of sections Caesareae and Vaginatae?

late to the party, again …
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2016-02-15 13:29:11 PST (-0800)

@Sarah: your first guess wasn’t so far off. This is one of what Rod calls the “slender caesars,” which are basically grisettes with an annulus!

I have been looking a bit harder at these lately, due to a very unusual form that occurs in CA and Mexico: Amanita calyptratoides. It seems to me to be a sort of morpho missing link between slender caesars and grisettes. It does NOT actually have a partial veil at all, which I discovered when I had the chance to examine eggs this year; that so called “disappearing annulus” is really just a bit of universal veil caught up between the stem base and cap, much like our velosa, a local CA colored grisette, shows a “pseudo-annulus”. At no time in development are the gills of either calyptratoides or velosa covered by a partial veil, even if there is sometimes a bit of annulus-like material around the stipe.

DNA trees put calyptratoides most closely related to your murrilliana shown here.

I would say that they are “oddballs,” both!

Dried material
By: Sarah Prentice
2015-11-16 14:35:51 PST (-0800)

en route to Dr. R. E. Tulloss.

Thank you, David.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-11-12 19:40:36 PST (-0800)


Nice call Rod.
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-11-12 17:08:37 PST (-0800)

In hindsight, lack of a basal bulb seems to point away from section Amanita. So with nicely detailed photos like these, one may suspect a saccate volva even when it’s collapsed onto the stipe base.

OK. Thank you.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-11-12 14:38:37 PST (-0800)

Then I propose A. murrilliana as a possible determination.

If we could try to extract DNA, it would be a useful thing to do.

Very best,


Hi Rod
By: Sarah Prentice
2015-11-12 13:22:27 PST (-0800)

Sorry for my delayed reply; I’ve been away from the internet for a few days.

Yes, there does appear to be a saccate volva.

Do you see a volva now?
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-11-12 06:05:15 PST (-0800)

It seems to me that there is one, but I’d sure be happy to have confirmation.

Very best,


I wondered about Caesareae…
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2015-11-11 15:49:52 PST (-0800)

But I didn’t detect a membranous volva upon initially viewing this. Probably should have considered the possibility one was collapsed onto the stalk.

The last image seems to show a saccate volva…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2015-11-11 06:00:59 PST (-0800)

Do you see that also, Sarah?

If so, I’d place this in sect. Caesareae. It would be somewhat like A. murrilliana, which was originally described from Florida.

Very best,


I would think Amanita sect. Vaginatae
By: Sarah Prentice
2015-11-10 18:37:08 PST (-0800)

except there’s a ring on the stem.

Created: 2015-11-10 16:47:33 PST (-0800)
Last modified: 2015-11-12 14:39:01 PST (-0800)
Viewed: 165 times, last viewed: 2016-10-27 07:18:51 PDT (-0700)
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