Observation 26546: Lepista nuda (Bull.) Cooke

When: 2009-10-11

Collection location: Strouds Run State Park, Athens, Ohio, USA [Click for map]

Who: Dan Molter (shroomydan)

No specimen available

Proposed Names

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


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By: Dan Molter (shroomydan)
2009-12-27 00:34:30 GMT (+0000)
Even though the two names are synonyms, one might be more correct than the other.

There are three aspects to species. First there is the physical fungus, the actual mushrooms. Next there is the taxonomic category, and finally there is a name which points to both the physical reality and the taxonomic category. As long as the names indicate the same physical reality they are synonyms, but the names might indicate different taxonomic categories.

Lepista nuda and Clitocybe nuda are equivalent in that both names point to the same physical reality. They are two names with the same physical referent. However, the meaning of a name is not exhausted in its referent.

Consider Quine’s example of Evening Star and Morning Star. Both names have the same referent, the planet Venus, but, the names have different meanings. Venus can be seen in both evening and morning, but the evening star can only be seen in the evening.
Or consider the names “George Washington” and “First president of the United States”. Both names indicate the same man, but one tells us that this is George, the son of a man named Washington; the other tells us this is the fisrt man elected as president of a nation state. Even though the names have the same referent, they have different meanings.

Likewise, Lepista nuda and Clitocybe nuda have the same referent but different meanings.

By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2009-12-20 20:11:09 GMT (+0000)

Not to mention that the very concept of species is currently in flux — we are
having a bit of a discussion on that here:


Lepista nuda
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2009-12-20 20:08:46 GMT (+0000)

Whatever you call it, that is a gorgeous photograph!

By: Chaz (tripper1445)
2009-12-20 18:56:09 GMT (+0000)

If you read my comment below I conceded the fact I was mistaken. There was no argument about it for me, just a simple mistake from a rookie. But since you brought it up, my little bit of study into the current state of Mycology is that it is not a popular field for most young scientists to chose and that it is in a state of flux for funding as well. Here we have a very good example of what is happening in this field today. You have to have strict organization for science to work. I understand what a synonym is but for the million or so undocumented fungi that’s left to be discovered synonyms can be confusing and unnecessary. My birth name is Charles but people call me Chaz. They have also called me Charlie and Chuck. All that’s fine with me but if you ask me what my actual birth name is it will always be Charles. But over here there is a fellow whose birth name is Chaz. Is he a Charles, too? He would deny that and say he is Chaz and nothing else will do. So, if you understand what I’m getting at, Mycology needs to become more organized with the taxonomy of fungi or there will be greater confusion down the road. Sorting through synonyms is a waste of time in the long haul because there are greater things to consider that will move this field along quicker than arguing over synonyms. For somebody like me just jumping in with both feet, it creates immediate confusion and makes it even harder to understand the labyrinth of names in this very interesting and important field of Mycology.

And now…
By: Douglas Smith (douglas)
2009-12-20 18:32:37 GMT (+0000)

It looks like someone has stated taht they things this species is Lepista nuda but is not Clitocybe nuda. Except that these are both names for the same species, so that just doesn’t make any sense… But I guess people will find something to argue about when they can…

My bad
By: Chaz (tripper1445)
2009-12-20 17:22:35 GMT (+0000)

You are correct, I missed that.

You don’t need to name it twice.
By: Douglas Smith (douglas)
2009-12-20 17:20:11 GMT (+0000)

Clitocybe nuda and Lepista nuda are synonyms for the same species, you don’t need to name this species twice. Take a look at the top of the obs., there it states:

Alternative Name: Lepista nuda (Bull.) Cooke.

And if you look at the obs. for each name you will see also listed the obs. for the other name.

Created: 2009-10-12 03:07:00 BST (+0100)
Last modified: 2009-10-12 03:07:00 BST (+0100)
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