Observation 31077: Pluteus sect. Pluteus
When: 2009-12-29
No herbarium specimen

Notes: Do we need another Pluteus cervinus post? No, but since I went through the trouble of looking for the horned cystidia, that’s what we are getting.

[admin – Sat Aug 14 02:07:50 +0000 2010]: Changed location name from ‘White Hill Open Space, Marin County, California’ to ‘White Hill Open Space, Marin Co., California, USA

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Thanks for all the interest
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2009-12-31 18:03:21 CST (-0500)
I certainly didn’t think that what I thought was a mundane Pluteus cervinus post would end up being somewhat controversial. Well, they were growing on the pictured crude chips but they were near the top of the hill in a fairly open area. The lower part of the trail was mostly Oak, Madrone,and Bay. At that juncture there were some fir and pine scattered nearby. However, I don’t know why anyone would chip up some tree in an Open Space area unless maybe it was considered “foreign” or non-native. Anyway, not being a good recognizer of chipped wood and not being inclined to climb that hill again, anybodies’ educated guess is credible to me. My guess however is that it is a conifer.
This isn’t full proof but
By: Eddee (eddeeee)
2009-12-31 10:57:08 CST (-0500)

if you look at image # 71978 There appears to be scattered about debris form a conifer. I see what looks like,two needle pine needles. In the upper left of the image is what appears to be remnants of a pine cone. I know that Marin ,having lived there for three years is full of mixed woods so it also quite possible it was found on a hard wood. There is a high probability that this came from pine though looking at the pic, It almost looks like possible a of a landscaped area which would mean wood chips which are usually made of pine. It is always nice to get a good pic of the fungi in situ, You can tell a lot that way.

By: Erin Page Blanchard (CureCat)
2009-12-31 09:41:34 CST (-0500)

That is most helpful Irene!!

Now I will have to start collecting wood with my mushrooms… great.

Type of wood
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2009-12-31 09:23:35 CST (-0500)

can be determined with the microscope. Perhaps not the exact species, but hardwoods and conifers look different (hardwood looks like sloppy knitting, conifer woods look like they are woven, with more square cells).

By: Erin Page Blanchard (CureCat)
2009-12-31 07:05:56 CST (-0500)

We need to know the kind of wood- whether coniferous or not. The two species are macroscopically variable, and I think it is a waste to split hairs on macro descriptions in this instance.

According to Flora Agaricina Neerlandica:

P. pouzarianus
spores: 6-8 × 4-5.5µm, ellipsoid to oblong, some oval
pleurocystidia: 70-90 × 13-22µm, 2-4 acute hooks at apex, narrowly fusiform

P. cervinus
spores: 6.5-8.5 × 4.5-6.5µm, broadly ellipsoid to oblong
pleurocystidia: 55-90 × 12-21 µm, 2-6 acute hooks at apex, narrowly fusiform

So then how does this collection compare?
Well the spores measure out to approximately 6-7 × 5-6µm as far as I can tell, and some are oval.
The single pleurocystidia has 2 hooks, and is 58-62 × 9-20µm depending on where you are measuring….

Not much to work with here… this fits within range of both descriptions. I guess some of the spores are oval, but that is not too convincing with the average spore shape of both species ellipsoid to oblong… Ron, any guess what kind of wood those pieces are??

By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2009-12-30 22:15:13 CST (-0500)

This s according to MO;…….. “Pluteus pouzarianus differs from Pluteus cervinus by its lack of raphanoid smell, presence of clamps in the pileipellis, a two layered pileipellis of hyaline hyphae overlaying brown hyaphae, and growth on coniferous wood.”

By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2009-12-30 21:36:27 CST (-0500)

Pluteus magnus according to David Arora is found in clusters which fits this observation I made (check this out) http://mushroomobserver.org/19918?search_seq=1149329 also has a wrinkled cap; he also said that is is supposed to be stouter or thicker which this observation shows compared to other observations of Pluteus cervinus I made in the area see http://mushroomobserver.org/20297?search_seq=1149329
but then what do call this one which was found on deciduous (poplar willow) wood chips1 they are huge!!! compared to other species of P cervinus i have found in the are? they are the biggest i have ever seen!!! see http://mushroomobserver.org/24191?search_seq=1149336 :D

Description for Pluteus magnus
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2009-12-30 14:57:44 CST (-0500)
can be found on MO under the Pluteus cervinus heading and Mykoweb.. http://www.mykoweb.com/temp/Pluteus_magnus_1.pdf It doesn’t look like Pluteus magnus has horned cystidia on the gills. Also these were rather small, caps 5.0-7.5 cm across.
so then the thing to do is to
By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2009-12-30 14:28:07 CST (-0500)

find ones that are noticeably wrinkled and check them out right ?

Can’t rule out P. magnus
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2009-12-30 14:18:26 CST (-0500)
at this point. Some of these had slightly wrinkled caps but according to Arora Pluteus cervinus can have that feature also. Some of these were darker than the average P. cervinus I’ve seen growing on old logs. They were growing on the pictured crude wood chips. I haven’t so far found anything about spore size or horned cystidia for P. magnus
I think
By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2009-12-30 13:58:19 CST (-0500)

this is a good observation with all that microscopy!!!1 but isn’t the cap a bit dark? how about Pluteus magnus or does that one have a wrinkled cap….Good Pictures!

Created: 2009-12-30 12:38:24 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2015-04-24 15:50:38 CDT (-0400)
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