Observation 44417: Morchella Dill. ex Pers.
When: 2010-04-19
No herbarium specimen

Proposed Names

28% (10)
Eyes3
Recognized by sight
-2% (10)
Recognized by sight: found the same kind on the same day. see http://mushroomobserver.org/44421?q=Cs6
Used references: Roody MOWVCA page 483, 484.
32% (6)
Eye3
Recognized by sight
-65% (7)
Recognized by sight

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

Add Comment
more Wikipedia edits
By: BlueCanoe
2012-04-16 12:56:23 PDT (-0700)

Found one more: observation 20598.

Wikipedia edits
By: BlueCanoe
2012-04-16 12:35:07 PDT (-0700)

I’m working on updating the morel articles on Wikipedia (as is Sasata) to reflect the new taxonomy of Kuo et al. 2012. Because the image description on Wikipedia links back to these observation pages here on Mushroom Observer, it would be nice if we could come to a consensus (probably impossible) so that if someone clicks through they’re not confused by the old names still being voted up. Short of that, perhaps an explicit discussion like we’re having on this observation will be enough. Other than this one, there are only a couple other Wikipedia-linked Morchella obs: observation 19133 and observation 45113.

M. angusticeps
By: Dan Molter (shroomydan)
2012-04-12 21:01:42 PDT (-0700)

I think Danny is right here. In light of Kuo et. all, I think the morels in this observation should be called angusticeps. Somebody should probably change the Wikipedia article.

By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2012-04-12 14:29:40 PDT (-0700)

a match in stipe dimensions (20–80 mm high; 10–30 mm wide), ornamentation (finely mealy with whitish granules) and topology (developing folds and channels, especially near the base, at maturity)

plus hymenophoral dimensions (30–80 mm high; 25–50 mm wide at the
widest point
), sinus (about 2–5 mm deep and 2–5 mm wide

This has been reported as one of two elata-like morels in eastern NA, the other being M. sepentrionalis, which, while overlapping somewhat in distribution and habitat, is considerably smaller. Plus, M. sepentrionalis is supposedly only found at and above the 44th parallel, too north for this ob.

I can’t find mention of any other “natural blacks” occuring in this part of the country, and the 2012 Kuo et al. key goes straight to one of these two spp.

works cited: Kuo M., Dewsbury D.R., O’donnell K., Rehner S.A., Moore J.D., Moncalvo J., Canfield S.A., Carter M., Stephenson S.L., Methven A., & Volk T.J. “Taxonomic revision of true morels (Morchella) in Canada and the United States.” Mycologia 104.2 (2012): PDF.

This is not M. elata
By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2012-04-09 11:10:30 PDT (-0700)

it is one of its soon to de described North American equivalent. Why so many heads are convening on that name despite this fact, I have no idea.

Great
By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2011-04-27 07:25:11 PDT (-0700)

We need some new names for the North American species.

Paper coming out on US Morchella species
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2011-04-27 06:52:23 PDT (-0700)

Michael Kuo is an author of a paper which will be coming out “real soon now”
(you know how that can be…) on classification of morels in North America, with proposed names. He gave a talk at our Morel Madness foray this weekend. The upshot of it is that DNA analysis has found NO common species between Europe/Asia and the US, also only two common species between eastern & western US. One interesting aside is that M. semilibera had another name assigned to it by Charles Peck, M. punctipes. He noticed the flakes of tissue on half-frees, and could not find mention of them in European descriptions, so he thought he had something different. Since our species is distinct, this may eventually be the name assigned to M. semilibera here. That’s not really germane to the present discussion, but I should soon be able to convicingly argue the renaming of my existing Mitrophora semilibera observations (HA!)

Michael, my apologies if I’ve said to much — I’m not too used to the academic concept of what you know, and when to say it!

Great Thread!!
By: Charles Seltenright Sr (Shroomin Yooper)
2011-04-27 03:37:53 PDT (-0700)
I suggest as Kou that we
By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2010-05-07 14:02:17 PDT (-0700)

abandon the Name Morchella angusticeps it is clearly confusing and not well described at all. what to call it then? I don’t know…….

yes I believe
By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2010-05-07 13:56:35 PDT (-0700)
that is what Kou is talking about here http://www.mushroomexpert.com/morchella_angusticeps.html
More confusion here too …
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2010-05-07 13:24:51 PDT (-0700)

Michael Kuo’s book “Morels” includes an illustration of Charles Peck’s of
what he called Morchella angusticeps, which are generally described as
having dark pit ridges, and so classified as black morels. The illustration
appears to show a morel with light ridges: http://www.mushroomexpert.com/morels/legend_angusticeps.jpg

Have to tell
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-05-07 10:31:47 PDT (-0700)

that the Morchella names aren’t settled in Europe either :-)
We are still struggling with questions about what was really meant by all the old names and descriptions. In many cases, several taxon were lumped together under one name and a poor description, and in other cases, they got different names on different stages of development.

There is some kind of consensus about Fries’ name elata, but the illustration he ordered and published, shows clearly another species.
I’ll try a link to his “icon” (will probably not work)

http://www.nrm.se/...

N.A. morels
By: Patrick Harvey (pg_harvey)
2010-05-07 09:45:57 PDT (-0700)

Michael Kuo spoke at our yearly MOMS morel hunt. According to his information,
there is NO DNA crossover between Asian/European and American (N. and S.) morels at the species level*. Guess we’ll eventually get some names for our guys after things settle down — ten years from now!

As a sidelight, he also said there does appear to be a name that was proposed for N.A. Morchella semilibera some years ago — M. punctipes.

  • at least for the sequences they chose to analyze.
Dan, I have also noticed
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2010-05-05 04:49:56 PDT (-0700)

the stems on the larger ones are usually granular. I had supposed this was due to a maturation feature. But perhaps this is a separate species? In the past I had also called the large ones “augusticeps.” But…

Johann, as I understand the developments of the last several years, there are very few matches for Euro and NA Morchella species. So, on one hand I agree that “black morel” would be a good name… But then, as you say, there seem to be several distinct NA species, and I believe some of them look alike. To make matters worse, there are interesting macro varieties of “blacks” which have been DNA matched to the more typical black types. One of these occurs in western NA burn sites and is called “greenies” by the local collectors. It’s a large thick fleshed green tinged morel that looks much different than the blacks I find here in eastern NA. So, within the comments of my “Morchella species” posts I like to add details about the particular macro “variety” that I have collected.

specific difference
By: Dan Molter (shroomydan)
2010-05-04 20:29:31 PDT (-0700)

“The stem is whitish or pale brownish, and its surface is smooth or finely granular—but not velvety.”
http://www.mushroomexpert.com/morchella_black.html

Smooth versus granulated stem strikes me as a specific difference. This character might be useful in splitting the black morel cluster.

Okay,The Black morel thing again!
By: Johannes Harnisch (Johann Harnisch)
2010-05-04 18:46:52 PDT (-0700)

http://www.mushroomexpert.com/morchella_black.html

After you have finished reeding all that
and find out that M. elata is not even verified in North America,
you will also discover that apparently there is actually 5 different black morels in NA (North America),
you will be told that the only scientific black Morel name in NA is M. angusticeps (I don’t know how this matches up with the 3rd Paragraph on this page http://www.mushroomexpert.com/morchella_black.html which seems to be saying there are defiantly other verified black morels [5 in fact] found in NA, may be some one will explain it? )

then to add to the confusion, This page
you will discover that M. angusticeps is possibly in correct and that name should be abandoned!

I don’t know what every ones consensus is but I would propose calling them by either a non-Latin name such as Black Morel .
or just sticking with the original Morchella elata and then some one just has to go through all the obs when/if that name is rejected in NA and change them to the future correct name, ?

In my local black morel spots
By: Dave W (Dave W)
2010-05-04 15:38:52 PDT (-0700)

I find the smaller sturdier ones early on, and if conditions are right, the larger much taller ones later. My suspicion is that they are all the same species… similar to the NA yellow morels formerly known as esculenta and crassipes. Also, as a black morel matures it expands markedly and the flesh thins.

Diferent from other black morels
By: Dan Molter (shroomydan)
2010-05-03 20:14:55 PDT (-0700)

When I first found these, they struck me as more like A semilibera than M. elata. The flesh is thinner than M. elata, they are larger, and all come to a point at the top. Morchella angusticeps sounds good to me.

Good eats
By: Dan Molter (shroomydan)
2010-04-19 17:59:18 PDT (-0700)

Hey Eddee

Yes, these have already been consumed. They were quite tasty, though not as good as the bigger yellow ones found the same day.

Did you eat them yet??
By: Eddee (eddeeee)
2010-04-19 08:48:19 PDT (-0700)

Found my self a couple of dozen today. Under hickory. I just go ahead and call them M. elata. I know there is a lot of confusion on the name. Roody list this particular one as M. elata. He also mentions a M. angusticeps as a possible distinctive species. Every field guide list M. elata as to this observation so until some one with more letters after there name than me gives me a definite species name ill stick to what all the field guides list this to be. Hope they where good.

Created: 2010-04-18 21:02:51 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2015-05-13 00:38:32 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 682 times, last viewed: 2016-09-13 17:27:15 PDT (-0700)
Show Log