Observation 47261: Bertrandia astatogala R. Heim
When: 2010-06-21
No herbarium specimen

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
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By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2010-06-21 07:49:10 PDT (-0700)

Bertrandia, who’s your Daddy? ;)

Where does this cool little shroom fit in? Closest relatives?

I agree too
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-06-21 05:11:28 PDT (-0700)

Humans aren’t different species because of different colour on skin, hair or eyes, so colour alone doesn’t have to be diagnostic.
Another example is Hygrocybe psittacina, which I have seen red, green and yellow at the same spot (also intermediates with mixed colours).

But Clive’s examples also show other differences, like more elongated spores, less pointed caps, less shaggy caps and stems. So it would indeed be interesting to compare them further.

Hi Irene,
By: Michael W (Michael Wallace)
2010-06-21 03:36:42 PDT (-0700)

Yes, I agree that it is definitely closely related to Hygrocybe conica and have no doubt that if it were found in America or another country it would be placed into that genus.
I don’t think a difference in colour alone should be enough to name a new species if all other characters are a match, it would be interesting to see how the DNA sequences compare with these two colour variations!

I have read
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-06-21 03:23:57 PDT (-0700)

Clive Shirley’s discussion:
where he writes that Bertrandia is similar to Hygrocybe conica, but not related.
But of course they are related, they do share the same ancestor. The only question is when and where it appeared..

Hygrocybe conica behaves in a similar way. The caps can be yellow, orange or red, the gills can be white, grey, yellow or greenish, the stems usually yellow, but also orange to red. A few colour forms are sometimes treated as separate species, but most of the time as varieties.

I think one opinion is as good as another, but if it’s possible, I’d like to see distinct forms (without existing intermediates) split, rather than lumped. If the opportunity comes with refined DNA-analyses, it makes more sense to compare a Hygrocybe conicopalustris with a chloroides, than comparing a conica with a conica..
You would have the same situation with Bertrandia, of course.

This one,
By: Michael W (Michael Wallace)
2010-06-21 00:58:55 PDT (-0700)
lacks any red pigments in the pileus and stipe and is thought to be an undescribed species but I have doubts about that because the microscopic characters are a match for the description of B. astatogala, it may have something to do with the type of plants that it fruits near?

Created: 2010-06-21 00:54:35 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2010-06-21 00:54:37 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 81 times, last viewed: 2016-10-27 16:15:11 PDT (-0700)
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