Observation 57708: Amanita smithiana Bas
When: 2010-10-31
No herbarium specimen

Notes: Collected in Tillamook State Forest, near Browns Camp.


12 Dec 2013. Rod identifies the mushroom in the first photo as A. smithiana and the mushroom showing on the right in the second and third photo as A. silivicola.

Proposed Names

15% (3)
Recognized by sight
29% (4)
Eye3 Eyes3
Recognized by sight

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Comments

Add Comment
No problem.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-12-13 00:06:03 CST (-0500)

Rod

Rod
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2013-12-12 23:37:18 CST (-0500)

Thank you very much for settling the questions about this collection. Sorry I missed the roots of the two smithianas.

Sava

looks like everyone was right…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2013-12-12 14:44:24 CST (-0500)

in part.

A better way to put this….
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-12-12 14:13:01 CST (-0500)

The specimen in the upper right of the middle photograph is silvicola. The ones with proportionately narrower stems are smithiana.

Very best,

Rod

I wasn’t’ quite finished.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-12-12 14:11:39 CST (-0500)

I checked the smallest specimen. It is smithiana.

So only the mid-sized specimen is silvicola.

Very best,

Rod

The largest specimen checks out as A. smithiana.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2013-12-12 14:00:21 CST (-0500)

The most expanded of the smaller specimens is A. silvicola.

So this is a mixed collection. I’m separating it into two parts. The largest specimen will be segregated as smithiana. The two collections will be accessioned separately in our herbarium in Roosevelt.

Thanks to everybody who contributed points of view on this observation.

And special thanks to Sava for sending the material for examination.

Very best,

Rod

Double and triple thanks
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-11-23 10:24:06 CST (-0500)

Thank you once again, Sava.

Very best,

Rod

The location
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-11-23 01:13:49 CST (-0500)

Rod,

The location that you got on Google Earth is correct.

Sava

Dried material….
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-11-22 22:37:57 CST (-0500)

has arrived safely.

Thank you very much for sending it. You say (above) “near Browns Camp”…Google Earth shows a place called “Brown Camp” in Tillamook St. For. Is this the same spot? It is shown along Hwy 6 near the county line.

Very best,

Rod

Thank you.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-11-02 05:39:27 CST (-0500)

The illustrations make the situation very clear.

Changed my votes further.

R.

The bulbs
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-11-02 00:18:43 CST (-0500)

Added a picture of the two bulbs. (The third mushroom from the collection I picked without bulb.) The bulb on the right is intact. The one on the left has a small piece missing, probably too small to indicate a root.

Sava

deja vu
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-11-01 14:30:28 CST (-0500)

Something tells me that I’ve been corrected on this point of the annulus before…probably by Debbie.

I agree with Debbie that bulbs look complete.

I made an adjustment in my votes.

With these photos vouchered by dried material, I will not be able to forget if the Amanitaceae website has to be fixed!

The third option is open.

Rod

Will check the bulbs
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-11-01 13:42:37 CST (-0500)

Rod and Debbie, thanks for your comments. I’ve seen A. smithiana before (Saturday Fall Foray the latest) and I don’t believe I was so tired yesterday to cut three smithiana roots. But I’ll check the bulbs tonight. The collection is in my fridge and I’ll also put it in the dryer (when the boletes are done).

Sava

and yet, I have seen in the field…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2010-11-01 10:59:29 CST (-0500)

and can see right here on MO a number of photos of silvicola that do indeed have partial veils after the cap expands. smithiana also has a partial veil that doesn’t stick around for very long…

seems to me that it is the long rooting stipe that is the best measure of smithiana as a species. Indeed, it is seldom collected in its entirety (the best example that I ever saw was one well dug up by Maggie Rogers at a long ago Breitenbush) and I link to a photo of it here…it is the large mushroom in the middle of the photo, with a button snuggled up against the radicating stipe (and even here not all of it was collected!) You can also see that many of these smithaiana also lack partial veils.

http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/30080?obs=14589&q=2avK

Sava’s white lepidellas do seem to have a complete bulb, at least the one that I can see well on the left. Even if you don’t get it all up, you can see where it was broken off…and i do not see that here in these photos.

I’m throwing my vote in with silvicola, but I agree, it can be a tough call.

Now if there’s yet another lepidella up there, well, that’s a whole nuther kettle of fish…;)

Partial veil
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2010-11-01 08:38:18 CST (-0500)

The presence of a fairly well structured partical veil should eliminate A. silvicola, which is described as lacking such a feature.

While the partial veil of A. smithiana is weakly-structured (it becomes very “beat up” and may disappear one the mushroom has expanded), it is apparent for a while on the stem. It is a pity that we don’t see the radicating bulb of A. smithiana in any of these shots. In the drawing in the protolog (Dr. Bas’ 1969 thesis) the radical is cut off. I can’t think of a photograph that I have seen in which the radical was not cut off in collecting or suffered some other fate.

Considering that there MIGHT be a THIRD species to consider, I’m going to give a vote to raise the probability of A. smithiana.

Sava, if you have dried material of a mature (but not over mature) specimen from this collection, I’d be interested to take a look at it…when I get a chance.

R.

Created: 2010-11-01 00:48:31 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2013-12-13 00:11:29 CST (-0500)
Viewed: 336 times, last viewed: 2017-03-10 11:31:22 CST (-0500)
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