Observation 59719: Lyophyllum deliberatum (Britzelm.) Kreisel

When: 2010-11-20

Collection location: Indian Cemetery, Husum, Washington, USA [Click for map]

Who: Sava Krstic (sava)

No specimen available

In a mixed forest. The second picture taken four days after collecting.

[admin – Tue Feb 08 12:34:52 +0000 2011]: Changed location name from ‘Husum, Klickitat Co, Washington, USA’ to ‘Husum, Klickitat Co., Washington, USA

Proposed Names

28% (1)
Recognized by sight
54% (1)
Recognized by sight: Microscopy and notes on smell are needed..

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


Add Comment
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-12-05 17:33:10 JST (+0900)

I (an old enough mathematician) actually remember the pain. It didn’t look like suffering at the time, though. :)

Thanks for another link to a great site!

Open access
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-12-03 21:26:57 JST (+0900)

to libraries is a big revolution. Imagine the pain (and costs) all the old mycologists had to suffer to get the information they needed :-(

An incredible site is http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/
I think it only contains older books and journals with expired copyrights, but they are many..

By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-12-03 17:27:04 JST (+0900)

I didn’t know about it. Thanks a lot for the link. It’s a little painful to use, but I suppose in many cases it will be easier than the alternatives.

By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-12-02 18:45:10 JST (+0900)

can be found at http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/cyberliber/
Choose Journals – Mycotaxon – volume – the page where you want to start reading.
If you don’t know where, you could start with “Search cumulative index” first. Mycotaxon and a few other journals are indexed there.

It’s a tough way to read them, and it takes some time to read through the pages to find what you want.
The descriptions of the new species are not easy to use, if you’re not in the habit of investigating every possible part of the mushroom with the microscope.. I’m not, and I don’t know if the result always will be the same in fresh and dry collections? But sometimes, you can find important details in the original descriptions that have been misunderstood, forgotten or neglected in later books and keys.

I still think the DNA tool should be used when it’s available. It’s needed to learn which details that are corresponding with certain species and which are not.

By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-12-02 17:26:43 JST (+0900)

Thanks for the new information. I don’t have ready access to the article in Mycotaxon and the microscopic key in PNWKC derived from it is a little over my current ability. But this is all very interesting. I’m sure I’ll visit the same spot next year, it is a fantastic place where I saw in two hours dozens of different species (including a Limacella), staying all the time within 200m from my car.

I’ll see if PNW experts can add something to this ID. Again, I really appreciate your comments.

There’s a key
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-12-01 20:14:54 JST (+0900)

to blackening Lyophyllum species in Mycotaxon 18(2), where there’s a possible match with L. infumatum (which now is considered to be a synonym to deliberatum), but also some new species described by the authors, Clémençon & A.H. Smith (geminum & biconicosporum, with similar spores).
The question is if they are different species or just deviant forms..?
I think some DNA work is needed to sort out this group.

PNW keys http://www.svims.ca/council/Lyophy.htm
includes geminum, not infumatum. Same thing in Matchmaker, but several look-alikes are mentioned in the description of geminum.
It was interesting to read that the holotype of L. geminum came from Mt Rainier National Park. Maybe that’s why geminum is a preferred name in the PNW?

Thanks, Irene!
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-12-01 18:44:38 JST (+0900)

Thank you very much for the description. It does seem to match in everything except perhaps the odor. Too bad I didn’t record the odor in time, but only a few days after collecting.

L. deliberatum is not mentioned at all in the PNW sources.

By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-12-01 18:19:09 JST (+0900)

Thanks for your comment, Alan. The red is from Congo Red—-I was looking at a crushed gill fragment.

Lyophyllum deliberatum
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2010-12-01 18:18:22 JST (+0900)

fits rather nicely with this one. Description from Funga Nordica:

“Sp 8.5-11.5 × 5-6.5 μm, rhomboid in face view, amygdaloid in side view.
Cap 30-90 mm, convex to plane, sometimes umbonate, smooth, yellowish brown to greyish brown, hygrophanous, not translucently striate;
gills broadly adnate, medium spaced to crowded, whitish to greyish, turning bluish, later blackish when bruised;
stem 30-100 × 5-20 mm, cylindrical to clavate, sometimes with tapering base, whitish or tinged greyish brown, slowly turning blackish when bruised;
smell farinaceous. Sp smooth.
In rich or calcareous, deciduous or coniferous forests and meadows; autumn.
L. deliberatum (Britzelm.) Kreisel (L. infumatum (Bres.) Kühner)

By: Alan Rockefeller (Alan Rockefeller)
2010-12-01 18:03:13 JST (+0900)

The spores are too large for Lyophyllum semitale. I am not sure what to call this spore shape. Most of the Lyophyllum seem to have round or ellipsoid spores so maybe some other genus.

Why is the micrograph red?

This mushroom does appear to stain black and that argues in favor of L. semitale.

Microshot added
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2010-12-01 17:42:00 JST (+0900)

No cystidia observed. The spore size is 8-12 × 6-7. Too large for L. semitale?

I did not notice any particular odor.

Created: 2010-11-25 20:12:28 JST (+0900)
Last modified: 2013-12-01 02:07:40 JST (+0900)
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