|I’d Call It That||3.0||4.36||1||(Myco93)|
sum(score * weight) /
(total weight + 1)
|I’d Call It That||3.0||11.20||2||(Alan Rockefeller,Mycowalt)|
sum(score * weight) /
(total weight + 1)
|I’d Call It That||3.0||0.00||0|
|Could Be||1.0||10.62||2||(amanitarita,Alan Rockefeller)|
sum(score * weight) /
(total weight + 1)
the long marginal striations (they are short in these photos), and the prominant umbo, as Lux already mentioned. Murrill mentions warts in his written description even if he doesn’t sketch them, and the medial annulus fits both mushrooms.
did Murrill even do microscopy on this mushroom? or was Jenkins the one who did the cited measurements?
sounds like the scope is your next step for ID, altho we are already seeing macro differences…
Murrill was a voracious collector. His shorthand (and his drawings) are indicative of someone plowing through mountains of material. He often had only one or two characters in mind in finding a species to be new. He was not a microscope wizard either. He was a very sharp-eyed field guy…often naming species more than once because of differences in fruiting body size or color of the center of the cap.
Shorthand drawings probably reached their near minimum with Singer for whom a Picasso-esque, wavy line would suggest the form (and size!) of a cap and two lines would suggest the length and width of the stem. A wiggly “U” around the “stem base” shows the dimensions of the volva (if there was one) and its rough shape. By drawing approximately life size, Singer had to draw over his notes or write over his drawing sometimes. His Amanita notebook is now in the Field Museum in Chicago. Murrill was not quite this sort of minimalist.
Note that he draws the stipe arising from a hollow space with a lot of room around the stipe. This is something he did several times with his drawings of amanitas to emphasize that the volva was, in one way or another, limbate. I don’t think that we can assume tha Murrill’s drawing is a precise rendering in anyway. It is a sketch to jog his memory for the writing of a description of the species…at least that was part of the function of his drawings. They were not intended as illustrations.
I got some boxes of amanitas in the mail today. After I process them, I’m going to take a look at the umbrinidisca type collection.
that Murrill sketched a fruit body w/out warts!
So then there is considerable space above the skirt on the stem. That can fit with Murrill’s crude sketch.
Did you check that sketch out yet? I’m curious to know what you think. By the way that is Murrill’s handwriting around the sketch and his very odd abbreviations like “bec’g.” for “becoming”. It’s (mostly) oddly readable…
Yes indeed, that is the skirt. I recall making light of that detail.
Is that a skirt on the stem that seems to spread out and end just about at the level of the leaf litter?
on the page cited below of the new Amanitaceae web site.
I found a pencil sketch made by Murrill in 1911 when he collected the type of umbrinidisca. There are a few problems.
He drew short marginal striations, but says the margin was “long striate.” He describes a persistent skirt-like ring at about the middle of the stem (and sketches it there). He says the cap was umbonate and that the umbo was in a depression in older material. The one cap that is still in good condition in the type collection has no indication whatever that it had a striate margin and very little indication of an umbo.
My first attempt to find short gills in the dried specimen did not find very many. Those I did find appear truncate. No forking was noted either.
The collection is a bit strange…. Murrill retained one cap from which slugs had eaten ALL the gills.
One cap seems very well preserved, others seem almost as if they were collected at another time and preserved in a different way. Very odd.
Tomorrow I will see if I can get any microscopic characters from the material.
I added the name, author citation, etc.
What do you think?
Check out this:
Both the darkening of the disc and the paling of the margin seem to fit. The limb on the volva seems to be close to a match…although a bit vague. Very little is known about this species.
On the other hand, I have the holotype on loan from NY, and it’s sitting here beside me.
I’m thinking, Lux, that it may be very valuable for the understanding of this species if you can dry the material you are photographing.
Please contact me directly at firstname.lastname@example.org so that I can send you some relevant material by attachment to an email.
Like I said, A. umbrinidisca is POORLY understood. I happen to have what’s left of the 1911 type collected near Seattle here in the lab. I would very much like to say the same about your current, photographically documented collection. Any measurements you can supply (the material I will send covers how I make measurements) will be a big help also.
It would be really cool if you’ve found Murrill’s A. umbrinidisca.
Have we had a suspect come up before on MO? I’ll check.
We should also add to the data built up in the notes below, that this guy has very plentiful short gills of very diverse lengths. Truncate short gills are among the longest short gills seen and among the shortest short gills seen. That is there doesn’t seem to be a trend to toward gills being more attenuate if they are longer (for example). There is occasional anastomosing of short gills with adjacent full-length gills.
Any taxa described as having only scattered short gills probably can be set aside as a possibility for a home for this mushroom.
Very, very interesting.
A yellowish cap with a darkening center is described for several taxa in the gemmatoid group from several places in the world. Can you describe your habitat a bit? Is it entirely native vegetation? Can you tell us some tree genera or species in the vicinity?
I’m going to search for examples of taxa in section Amanita with common gill forking and confusingly variable shapes of short gills.
Short marginal striations. Cap a pale yellowish tan, without the darkening of the early photos. The white volva seems to form an irregular white limb on the top of the bulb.
The lamellae are a real suprise. I wonder if this repeats relatively frequently in other fruiting bodies. There is forking of gills rather commonly (not usual in Amanita), and there is even reverse forking (the “tines” of the fork point toward the stem a couple of times). The short gills vary in shape a great deal—truncated, rounded-truncate, truncate with an attenuate tooth down (in the bottom pic) near the flesh of the cap, and even more or less attenuate rather frequently.
Could you get a spore print (on glass or ceramic, NOT paper or wood) and put tincture of iodine or Melzer’s Reagent on the spores? I think they will probably not turn black. But I wouldn’t bet more than a cup of coffee at this point.
This sure isn’t A. franchetii sensu Thiers.
If it’s in subgenus Amanita (inamyloid spores), then it’s likely to be gemmatoid or pantherinoid…in my opinion.
There’s still no one from the West ready to jump up and say they find this all the time? :-)
Do you have the facilities to dry specimens?
certainly the cap color reminds us of franchetii, but the striate margin as well as white veil material (both universal and partial) make me think its something in the gemmata/pantherina group.
It is extremely helpful in these photo IDs to be able to see the entire mushroom, top to base…that would tell us the section at least right off the bat.
Good point, Darv. Do you have another suggestion for an ID?
The striking transistion between different colors is not a usual feature of taxa in Amanita gemmata-like taxa. Take a look at the old observations assigned to A. franchetii sensu Thiers; and you’ll see some of the images are very similar to the ones you posted here. It’s a good idea to get more of the stem (and, in fact, the bulb at the base of the stem) in at least one pic in a set of pics of an Amanita species. Those extra bits of info can help quite a bit with an ID based only on pictures.
Created: 2010-12-10 14:40:08 PST (-0800)
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