Observation 6212: Craterellus tubaeformis (Bull.) Quél.
When: 2008-01-26
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Very curious beastie. Uniformly brilliant orange on both cap (photo taken two days later, and caps have faded) and stipe, growing in deep pine duff.
Similar to C. igniformis of the East.

There was a small population of it, of perhaps fifty individuals; I left plenty behind in the field.

could it just be a color morph of tubaeformis? Tubies were also everwhere on the slope, but these orangies had an exclusive colony.

It’s a new one on me!

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
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Comments

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why not make your own obsie of this unusual form, Noah, with a place, too?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-09-10 12:21:38 CDT (-0500)
picture:
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2014-09-10 12:08:12 CDT (-0500)

I have seen thses pale forms
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2014-09-10 12:04:14 CDT (-0500)

up in JSF and the Mendocino area as well. They appear to be just a pale form of the CA “tubaeformis”. Much like, as Debbie points out, C. cornucopioides has.

Darvin’s collections are the same sp. as mine …
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-09-10 11:43:23 CDT (-0500)

and quite possibly the same individual (we hunt the same spots, after all). I strongly suspect this is just a color anomaly in our neotubaeformis. Why confuse the issue with an eastern name?

Pink
By: Erlon (Herbert Baker)
2014-09-09 11:42:49 CDT (-0500)

The pink coloring does seem unique, I said the same thing also in Darvin’s observation of this species. I used the name Craterellus ignicolor group as a place holder for mushrooms that look similar but are likely different for one reason or another. I don’t think it is C. ignicolor either; probably something that needs a name. Perhaps it is just a strange variation of your western “neotubaeformis”. Cheers!

maybe, maybe not.
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-09-09 11:28:27 CDT (-0500)

it is a rare, perhaps unnamed variety. are there photos and descriptions up with every Genbank sequence?are those almost 300 examples of Craterellus due to individual variation or species differences?
we often see Craterellus cornucopioides with odd color morphs at this park, too: black craterellus that are partially or wholly orange.

does that make it a “new” species?

DNA matching is only as good as the specimens in the bank. what are they, really?

I believe that Alan is still in Mexico, but he is welcome to have part of this collection. Just running the DNA doesn’t mean that poof! you will have an exact answer to your question on just who this interesting critter is, though.

I am surprised
By: Rocky Houghtby
2014-09-09 11:15:57 CDT (-0500)

There are 296 Craterellus sequences in genbank. The better looking sequences use ITS1 and 2 in addition to ribosomal subunits. I imagine Alan could give you a very concrete name for this collection.

really?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2014-09-09 09:52:30 CDT (-0500)

an unusual color morph within a vast field of normally colored tubaeformis on the west coast has somehow morphed into an eastern sp. of craterellus?

the likelihood is remote. look more closely at ignicolor descriptions … they do NOT have these bright pink gills! also, the species description habitat is way off for these:

here’s what Kuo states:

Ecology (Craterellus ignicolor): Saprobic and/or mycorrhizal; growing alone or gregariously in moss or sphagnum in conifer bogs, and under hardwoods in damp, shady areas; apparently limited to eastern North America; summer and fall.

These were found along a pine slope, growing from pine duff. No moss, no bog no summer/fall.

the whole genome?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-03-16 16:26:22 CDT (-0500)

or just the ITS?

if not the exact same species, they are surely very closely related.

still, I can easily spare one fruit body, let alone 1/20th of one cap!

DNA
By: Alan Rockefeller (Alan Rockefeller)
2012-03-16 16:17:32 CDT (-0500)

> that you will find minor differences in DNA in different colour forms, and I think it would be interesting to know where in the DNA chain it can be seen.

Definitely correct if you sequence the whole genome, but when just looking at the ITS1 gene or other small DNA snippets there may not be differences.

> But how many would one really need for DNA analysis?

A very small amount, since these caps are small it would be about 1/20th of a cap. I generally use an amount about the size of a grain of rice. Using less tissue usually gives better results because there is less chance of contamination. The actual amount used is very tiny – We extract the DNA from a bit the size of a grain of rice into 500 microliters of dilute KOH, agitate it and then take 5 microliters of that to go into the PCR, so we end up using an amount that is roughly 1/50th the size of a grain of rice.

If you give me one I will sequence it.

I agree Irene, and save these forms for exactly these purposes…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-03-16 12:51:48 CDT (-0500)

but it won’t be me doing the lab work. ;)

If you know somebody that is interested in doing so, please have them get in touch with me! I am glad to share.

I beleive
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2012-03-16 12:48:57 CDT (-0500)

that you will find minor differences in DNA in different colour forms, and I think it would be interesting to know where in the DNA chain it can be seen.
I don’t know how it works, but perhaps it might be helpful if you want to sort out such changes in other species where it isn’t quite clear if they ARE just different colour forms or different species? – like these for example:
http://mushroomobserver.org/obs/84967?q=CQe5

I agree, although sometimes you just find one fruit body of a “new” species…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-03-16 12:40:50 CDT (-0500)

in this case, I dried all of the fruit bodies depicted here, so no worries!

I don’t know
By: Andreas (AK_CCM)
2012-03-16 12:35:00 CDT (-0500)

…how many fruitbodies needed for DNA analysis. I’m only a little amateur mycologist. But I could ask someone.

The reason of my comment about saving a big collection is to have enough herbarium material for studying purposes in future if this is really a new species. I think it’s better to have one fruitbody too much in the bag as one too less.

well, I already have them…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-03-16 11:14:06 CDT (-0500)

I also remember exactly where they grew, and from the numbers involved, I am sure that it was the entire outgrowth of an individual mycelium; in other words, it would continue to “breed true” for color.

But how many would one really need for DNA analysis?

Darvin DeShazer also collected this form during this time period. Has anyone seen it there since???

Half a rainbow tubies ;-)
By: Andreas (AK_CCM)
2012-03-16 11:01:17 CDT (-0500)

I couldn’t find a var. or f. with that colors in mycobank. It could be useful to make a big collection of fruitbodies for dna analysis. Perhaps it’s no C. tubaeformis but another species. Unfortunately I didn’t know the species outside Europe…

here’s another odd color morph…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-03-16 10:20:12 CDT (-0500)

growing amongst a whole hillside of normal tubies, but probably NOT a new species.

Created: 2008-01-28 17:14:57 CST (-0600)
Last modified: 2014-09-09 12:34:01 CDT (-0500)
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