Observation 63089: Daedalea quercina (L.) Pers.
When: 2011-02-05
No herbarium specimen

Notes: On dead oak, at many places in Cooper Mountain Nature Park.

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By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-03-29 16:39:16 CDT (-0400)

hard to call them “easy” to tell apart macro-morphologically, when so many seem to be having trouble doing so. There are always ambiguous fruit bodies.

so basically you just looked at fruit bodies in a drawer and made your determinations on that? Wouldn’t it have been better to go a bit deeper, and at least confirm some of those IDs with micro or even DNA?

Other field guides, for instance the Bessettes guide to Eastern Mushrooms, show quite similar macromorph between the two species; even what you cited here describes them both as “corky.” Since our Trametes betulina can show a maze like arrangement of pores, and one seldom digs down into the wood to see whether the cellulose or lignin is what remains, hard to use the type of rot for ID, esp. when you are doing that ID from an herbarium drawer.

How were those former so-called CA collections of Daedalea determined by others? Where is that info? If it had maze-like pores it was just assumed to be Daedalea? Every generation finds mistakes made in the last. The same will be true for us and our work someday.

These two species
By: Noah Siegel (Noah)
2017-03-29 12:57:14 CDT (-0400)

are very easy to tell apart in the field; micro isn’t ever required most of the time. MotRC mentions differences, as did I yesterday.

Additionally, Daedalea is a brown rot; Trametes/Lenzites is a white rot.

Contact the Clark “Polypeet” people and see if they have compared western Lenzites to eastern counterparts. If they haven’t, I’m sure you could send them a few collections.

Here are the pages of these two species from North American Polyores;

By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-03-29 11:18:21 CDT (-0400)

has anyone done DNA on any of these purported Daedalea collections? It seems that the macro can get quite similar. In the PNW, with that far greater amount of water, at least in "normal " years (what ever normal means these days), one other polypore can look quite different than their more southern, xeric, montaine dwelling counterparts: Pycnoporellus alboluteus as one shining example. You can find photos of both: a stunningly huge from from Honeyman Park in OR and another stunted form in the Sierra, both obsies by me, right here on MO.

Could the same thing be happening with Trametes betulina?

Now MAYBE Daedalea has been introduced to restricted areas of the west. Does the micro differ drastically between those two species. Inother words, how di C and N determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that only Trametes was present in CA collections?

I think if an eastern collector came to the west and saw Trametes betulina, they would be tempted to call it Daedalea, since it is kinda sorta close to their own experiences.

Just for the record, I came to my opinions here independently of N and C. I am not a big polypore person, and haven’t read that section of their book, but I have collected Daedalea in the east, where it is common, and plenty of Trametes betulina here in the west, ditto, so I find it difficult to believe that is really what we have.

Like I said, I would like to see the proof.

not here in CA, where we don’t have birch
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-03-29 11:03:58 CDT (-0400)

but we do have lots of oak.

isn’t betulina
By: Matt Welter (mattfungus)
2017-03-29 01:41:37 CDT (-0400)

more birch related and quercina more oak related.

Other than that, like above, I have observed D. quercina has more corky, thick walled gills with a taller hoof like cap that is often harder to bend or break than the thinner, papery T. betulina that has a flatter appearance appearance and is a lot easier to break when dry.

Also, I have notice both species used in crafts, but I often see T. betulina more often for sale at places like Michaels and Hobby Lobby.

Good question
By: Sava Krstic (sava)
2017-03-29 01:24:05 CDT (-0400)

I’m not sure I can prove anything based on these photos. Maybe we even have Daedalea in the first photo and Trametes in the others? I would expect Trametes not to be such a hoof and to have more gill-like underside. Daedalea would be woody and Trametes leathery and with tomentose caps, but we cannot see these features now.

I’m reading just now in MRC (Siegel & Schwarz) that most California collections labelled Daedalea are in fact Trametes.

how does this differ from
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2017-03-28 14:24:29 CDT (-0400)

Trametes betulina?

Created: 2011-02-06 00:27:35 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2017-03-29 01:35:55 CDT (-0400)
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