Observation 65490: Amanita Pers. sect. Amanita
When: 2010-12-15
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Spores from this collection:
http://mushroomobserver.org/61122?q=4807

Spores average 11.2 × 7.6 microns
Q avg. = 1.5

Given that a spore population of this size yielded us a 1.5 Q value, I think this has a good chance at being A. breckonii. What Noah’s observation doesn’t mention is that I found this fruiting under Pinus radiata AT SFSU (ie, the type locality!).
I will work on sequencing my collection, and will get in contact with Rod and Dennis Desjardin about sequencing the type collection.

If they turn out to be close enough genetically, we should deposit this new collection (NS 15Dec2010-3) as Representative Specimens.

Table below:
LENGTH WIDTH Q
11.2 7.7 1.4
11.0 7.5 1.5
11.4 7.9 1.4
10.6 7.6 1.4
9.8 6.8 1.4
11.5 7.5 1.5
10.2 6.8 1.5
10.6 7.3 1.4
10.9 7.3 1.5
11.6 7.5 1.5
10.3 7.2 1.4
12.8 8.1 1.6
11.5 8.0 1.4
11.9 8.3 1.4
10.8 7.4 1.5
10.5 7.2 1.5
11.5 8.1 1.4
11.9 7.6 1.6
10.7 7.9 1.4
11.1 8.1 1.4
10.6 7.7 1.4
11.0 7.3 1.5
13.3 7.0 1.9
10.8 7.3 1.5
11.5 7.3 1.6
11.1 6.8 1.6
11.0 7.8 1.4
11.0 7.6 1.5
11.4 7.9 1.4
11.5 7.9 1.4
10.4 7.5 1.4
11.7 7.5 1.6
11.6 8.1 1.4
12.2 8.5 1.4
10.9 7.2 1.5
10.7 7.8 1.4
11.8 7.6 1.5
11.7 7.4 1.6
10.8 7.9 1.4
11.1 7.4 1.5
11.6 7.7 1.5
10.9 7.6 1.4
11.4 8.2 1.4
12.1 8.0 1.5
11.4 8.3 1.4
12.2 8.2 1.5
10.0 7.5 1.3
11.5 8.1 1.4
11.0 7.5 1.5
10.5 7.3 1.4
10.5 7.6 1.4
11.1 7.0 1.6
9.7 7.0 1.4
10.7 7.4 1.4
12.7 7.6 1.7
10.3 7.6 1.4
11.3 7.3 1.6
11.1 7.8 1.4
11.3 7.3 1.5
11.8 7.7 1.5
10.4 7.6 1.4

Images

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Copyright © 2011 Christian F. Schwarz
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Copyright © 2011 Christian F. Schwarz
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Copyright © 2011 Christian F. Schwarz
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Copyright © 2011 Christian F. Schwarz
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Copyright © 2011 Christian F. Schwarz
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Copyright © 2010 Christian F. Schwarz

Proposed Names

Please login to propose your own names and vote on existing names.

Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

Add Comment
did you ever run the DNA on this Christian?
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-06-04 08:58:38 PDT (-0700)

at least now you have something to compare it with!

Terrific photo, Mr. de Mille, the clamp is ready for it’s close-up!
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2011-04-16 05:13:52 PDT (-0700)

Nice work. OK. That really blows away the idea that we’re dealing with something in the “muscaria-group”,

Little Miss Orangish Critter is absolutely not Amanita breckonii. Very infrequent clamps (in my experience, I hasten to add) is a condition characteristic of the gemmatoid taxa. Clamps so rare that maybe they are missing entirely is a condition characteristic of the pantherinoid group.

So what you’ve demonstrated suggests that my guess that we had something in the gemmatoid group may not have been too shabby. (Insert smiley face patting itself on the back.)

So that’s progress. Good going.

The next thing is to check the more obscure West Coast gemmatoid taxa to see if something named by Murrill (for example) could be what all the “little Miss Orangish Critter” collectors have been finding.

Very best,

Rod

Clamps
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2011-04-15 21:30:32 PDT (-0700)

were not conspicuous or rather rare. I have added a photo of one of the only convincing ones.

clamps…
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2011-04-14 10:07:54 PDT (-0700)

Christian, I think it would be worth checking for clamp connections on basidia for this critter. I’m wondering if it is even in the “muscaria-group.”

If you go to http://www.amanitaceae.org/?section&20Amanita , you’ll see that, in discussion with Dr. Yang and others, I’ve proposed subsections and taxa at lower ranks for Amanita sect. Amanita. The definitions of the groups are in the green columns to the right of what we call the “directory pages” (the alphabetical listings of taxa within each supraspecific taxon in the Amanitaceae). The current hypothesis is that a set of “core branches” (leaf taxa on these branches have clamps on their basidia) are accompanied by a second set of branches that represent repeated loss of clamps over a [of course, very long] time.

Some time ago, somebody on MO asked me to define “muscaria-group”; and I wrote a somewhat impromptu MO-post that presented my thinking about the possible “tree” of the clamp-bearing species of sect. Amanita. The “clade” of directory pages corresponding to sect. Amanita on www.amanitaceae.org is the current generation of that old post.

At the moment, I would refer persons interested in the taxonomy and systematics of the “muscaria-group” to the above mentioned part of www.amanitaceae.org. Remember the names below the rank of section are provisional. The hypotheses embodied in all of www.amanitaceae.org represents the thinking of Dr. Yang and/or myself as supported by the work of many other people past and present.

Do you think that “wao” would be a good short way of writing www.amanitaceae.org? I’m tired of typing the whole darn thing, but I don’t want to be vague or ambiguous. “WA” is “Western Australia”; therefore, not an appropriate candidate.

Rod

Rod
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2011-04-14 08:01:29 PDT (-0700)

thanks for that clarification re: type nomenclature. Looking at a paper I have on determination of types, it looks like it wouldn’t qualify for any “type” in a strict sense, but could be termed “Representative specimens”.

I will look at veil cells, proportion of clamped basidia, and sterile cells from the lamellar margin when I get a chance.

If you find that you have sufficient evidence that this is A. breckonii
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2011-04-14 05:44:27 PDT (-0700)

…then if you want to give some special status to the collection, you can’t make it a lectotype when the holotype is in existence. You could designate some other special status. I would suggest that you simply publish an article providing colored images, etc. and redocument the species.

I would encourage you to go beyond the spore measurements and look at the rest of the anatomy and compare it against my data from the type.

If there’s something you need that’s not on-line, contact me, please.

Very best,

Rod Tulloss

A very expensive
By: Christian (Christian Schwarz)
2011-04-13 23:00:19 PDT (-0700)

university scope, reagent here is Congo Red (faint pink on the spores) in 3% KOH.

Very nice Christian….
By: Ron Pastorino (Ronpast)
2011-04-13 19:14:23 PDT (-0700)
and what the heck are you using as a microscope and reagent?

Created: 2011-04-13 18:05:40 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2016-06-14 13:49:48 PDT (-0700)
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