Observation 68217: Pluteus pouzarianus Singer
When: 2011-05-18
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Original Herbarium LabeL Pluteus pouzarianus var. albus Bonnard
Herbarium Specimen: UBC F25071

Please correct our IDs if you feel they might be wrong, but do it as a comment, NOT by changing our observation names. Thanks!

Proposed Names

15% (3)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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Thanks for the reprint
By: Oluna & Adolf Ceska (aceska@telus.net)
2015-04-24 18:11:07 MDT (-0600)

I am always scarred to open any comments related to our MO postings. The same was true about this your last comment. What a surprise! When I quoted Else Vellinga, it was from a chain of emails when I asked her for exactly this paper, where she was a co-author. I was just ready to go to the UVIC library to see if I could get your paper there. Many thanks for sending it to us this way
In Oluna’s collections from 2004 through 2013, we have 7 specimens identified as Pluteus pouzarianus. (I have just posted – as P. pouzarianus_ – Oluna’s drawing of one of those collections.) We have not read your et al. paper yet, but what would our “Pluteus puzarianus” be? Would it be “Pluteus primus” in spite of the fact that not all the septa have clamps on pileipellis hyphae?
We have already corresponded with you about the possibility that you would have a look at our collections almost three years ago (2012-06-26). Until you or somebody else would have closer look at our material, we would stick with calling our collections “P. pouzarianus”in spite of the fact that we might be wrong. Nevertheless, it is about the closest we could get to. Before reading your paper, I mean, maybe there is some answer to our problem there. – Thanks!

pouzarianus
By: Alfredo Justo (Fredo)
2015-04-24 17:07:03 MDT (-0600)

Hi Adolf,

I will put my observations only in the comments if you would prefer that.

It is very unlikely that this collection is Pluteus pouzarianus. Yes, it is true that we have a lot of sampling to do to better understand this group, but the pattern that emerges from comparing the species in the pouzarianus clade makes it very unlikely that we have missed the presence of this species in North America. In the Eastern parts of Eurasia other species of this complex, and not P. pouzarianus are already present.

The cheilocystidia shape and size that you give do not fit Pluteus pouzarianus either, of all the species in this group they are most similar to the ones in Pluteus primus.

For more on this group: http://www.clarku.edu/...

Can you put your annotations as a comment?
By: Oluna & Adolf Ceska (aceska@telus.net)
2015-04-24 14:22:00 MDT (-0600)

Please correct our IDs if you feel they might be wrong, but do it as a comment, NOT by changing our observation names. Thanks!
Changing the MO observation name will destroy the link of MO to the herbarium voucher specimen & records based on it (http://www.goert.ca/... in this particular case).
According to Fungi of Switzerland 4, Pluteus pouzarianus has occasional clamps (about 40% of septa), whereas Pluteus primus has clamps on all septa. Compare with http://mushroomobserver.org/66969 .
Else Vellinga (pers.com. 2014-10-01) also said that Plutues pouzarianus is only in Europe and “we have mostly primus. BUT, western North America is severely undersampled/undersequenced.”
In our collections from 2004 to 2013 (incl.), we have 5 collections of what we call Pluteus pouzarianus, but they are all “undersequenced”.

not pouzarianus
By: Alfredo Justo (Fredo)
2014-11-01 16:03:13 MDT (-0600)

Pluteus pouzarianus (and its white variants) are restricted to western Eurasia.

This is probably a white variant of Pluteus primus or Pluteus brunneidiscus. The long, narrow cheilocystidia are more typical of Pluteus primus

Created: 2011-05-28 02:35:48 MDT (-0600)
Last modified: 2015-04-24 16:28:51 MDT (-0600)
Viewed: 214 times, last viewed: 2016-11-21 23:49:45 MST (-0700)
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