Observation 81140: Amanita muscaria var. “formosa” sensu Thiers
When: 2011-10-31
No herbarium specimen

Proposed Names

-3% (3)
Recognized by sight: This looks very pale for this name and I’m not seeing a lot of yellow in the volval remnants.

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus

Comments

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Thanks Nathan.
By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2011-12-18 12:10:52 PST (-0800)

I won’t pretend to understand ICBN rules enough to toe-to-toe with anyone who does so for a living, but from the user end, there appears to be more chaos than order. Subgenus vs. section vs. subsection vs. group is another example; different names for differing ranges of difference between and among organisms. To say they’re interchangeable might be going a bit far. That their use is somewhat open to the interpretation of the author is apparent throughout mycological literature. I’ll try to dig up some examples when I next get some desk time.

Thanks!
By: Tim Sage (T. Sage)
2011-12-18 09:50:56 PST (-0800)
Controlling export…
By: Nathan Wilson (nathan)
2011-12-18 09:22:38 PST (-0800)

I should also note that I have set things up so that images that have the consensus names ‘Amanita muscaria var. flavivolvata’ or ‘Amanita muscaria f. flavivolvata’ will not get shared with other sites like the EOL. For this paricular, observation that’s not terribly relevant since we don’t even have consensus that we have the right name.

Subspecific ranks
By: Nathan Wilson (nathan)
2011-12-18 09:17:07 PST (-0800)

They are definitely not interchangable.

In theory at least there is the same hierarchical structure of ranks as family, genus, species, underneath species. In this context the order is species, subspecies (really more akin to subfamily or subgenus), variety and finally form. This order is reflected in the Dictionary of the Fungi (which I don’t have at hand at the moment). However, I have yet to find a really compelling set of definitions for the subspecific ranks. Wikipedia has decent article on this topic at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomic_rank

Personally, based on the terms, I assume the intention is that subspecies are intended to reflect different populations that while they can interbreed they are heading towards speciation. Varieties, on the other hand, I take to imply that while there is a genetic basis for the different morphologies, there are not really distinct populations. Variety status is also important legally for cultivated plants. Finally, forms I take to mean morphological differences that may have a genetic component or may be driven by non-genetic factors like weather or substrate.

In this case according to Index Fungorum, all three taxa have been published at different times by different authors:

Amanita muscaria subsp. flavivolvata Singer 1958
Amanita muscaria var. flavivolvata (Singer) Dav.T. Jenkins 1977
Amanita muscaria f. flavivolvata (Singer) Neville & Poumarat 2002

Furthermore, according to Index Fungorum, they are all homotypic synonyms. Now, based on various comments that Rod has made, I believe there is good molecular evidence that this is really a distinct species. Given that, I am choosing to prefer the published name that reflects the biggest possible difference until the new species name is formally published.

All of that said, I can certainly understand having the impression that they are interchangeable since in all the cases I’ve noticed in mycology an author chooses one level for a given species. I have seen cases in plants (like in orchids) where more than one subspecific rank is used.

The underlying reason why all of this is important to me at the moment is that I am trying to substantially expand the amount of data MO is sharing with EOL. In order to do that most effectively it is best if homotypic synonyms from a given source have a single name.

Thanks Danny!
By: Tim Sage (T. Sage)
2011-12-17 23:44:47 PST (-0800)

^

there isn’t one
By: Danny Newman (myxomop)
2011-12-17 20:02:31 PST (-0800)

I don’t understand Nathan’s proposal either. the use of subspecies, form and variation are, to the best of my memory, interchangeable, depending on the taxonomist’s definition of each term. i could be wrong.

Can anyone explain to me……
By: Tim Sage (T. Sage)
2011-12-17 19:35:42 PST (-0800)

The difference between:

A. muscaria var. flavivolvata

and

A. muscaria subsp. flavivolvata

I am confusededededed.

All you did was change “var.” to “Subsp.”….
By: Tim Sage (T. Sage)
2011-12-13 14:37:46 PST (-0800)

??? Are those truly two separate species? Interesting.

The warts on the young specimens were quite yellow, as you can see in the middle pic. They fade with age.

Created: 2011-10-31 14:36:41 PDT (-0700)
Last modified: 2014-05-25 10:04:20 PDT (-0700)
Viewed: 163 times, last viewed: 2016-04-13 03:19:22 PDT (-0700)
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