Observation 82966: Cortinarius purpureus (Bull.) Bidaud, Moënne-Locc. & Reumaux
When: 2011-11-17
Herbarium specimen reported

Notes: Spores 8 × 4-4.5 µm
Syn.: Cortinarius phoeniceus (Vent.) Maire

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


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Cortinarius neosanguineus
By: Oluna & Adolf Ceska (aceska@telus.net)
2012-10-19 16:12:03 CDT (-0400)

This collection is now with Prof. Joe Ammirati and we should wait for his word on it. He did not include it into Cortinarius neosanguineus in his recent article, although he included another Oluna’s collection there. The UBC computer is down (computer operators are on strike, I heard) and I cannot find what UBC F14888 specimen was. It is clear form Oluna’s drawing that she was not happy with neither “purpureus” nor “sanguineus”. – Adolf
P.S. Prof. Ammirati received this specimen ca. 4 months before they submitted their recent Cortinarius paper that treated C. neosanguineus. I assume that they would have had included it if it were that species. AC

neosanguineus is the best option
By: Dimitar Bojantchev (dimitar)
2012-10-19 14:00:15 CDT (-0400)

C. neosanguineus seems like the best name here, indeed. We also have C. sierranensis, which is in this group, but its typical habitat is the high mountains under lodgepole pine.

Thanks Dimitriy!
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2012-10-19 13:56:29 CDT (-0400)

it means that neosanguineus is a possible alternative here.

In the article
By: Dmitriy Bochkov (convallaria)
2012-10-19 13:52:31 CDT (-0400)

the PNW ‘sanguineus’ is named Cortinarius neosanguineus. It is said to differ from the European and eastern NA taxon by darker colors and yellow rather than yellowish-red basal mycelium.

So how about
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2012-10-19 13:20:46 CDT (-0400)

this collection?

I can tell for sure that it’s not purpureus/phoeniceus. What is left, except sanguineus..? Lots of canadian collections with that name in the report, isn’t it?

Thanks bunches for that information…
By: Steve Roberts (Mushroom World)
2012-10-19 13:06:12 CDT (-0400)

I just accessed the article, and it appears C. puniceus is indeed a European species. The article did lead me to C. harrisonii, which looks like a very strong possible match for my specimens posted at mushroomobserver.org/113806

Appreciate it!

A report is recently published
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2012-10-19 03:52:59 CDT (-0400)

in Mycologia, september issue (2012 12-086)

“Cortinarius section Sanguinei in North America”
by Tuula Niskanen, Kare Liimatainen, Joseph F Ammirati, and Karen W Hughes

Someone who has access to it, might give the answer..

Is Cortinarius puniceus found in N. America
By: Steve Roberts (Mushroom World)
2012-10-19 02:18:25 CDT (-0400)

or is it a European species? If it is in N. America, do you know its distribution?


Specimen sent to Prof. Ammirati
By: Oluna & Adolf Ceska (aceska@telus.net)
2011-11-25 02:14:45 CST (-0500)

Prof. Ammirati’s verdict is similar to those of Dimitar and Irene. His Finnish colleagues have been in the Pacific Northwest at least two mushroom seasons and they have been working on this group together.

Species in the Sanguinei clade
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2011-11-23 03:44:32 CST (-0500)

known so far, are sanguineus, puniceus and sierraensis. C. vitiosus looks similar, but its DNA seems closer to species around semisanguineus.

I think it takes molecular analysis to find out where this one belongs.

Tough luck, but not C. purpureus
By: Dimitar Bojantchev (dimitar)
2011-11-23 03:17:59 CST (-0500)

Adolf, I cannot connect your species to C. purpureus/phoeniceus – these are in the /Semisanguineus clade – your material is straight in the “bloody” /Sanguineus clade…

Irene’s C. puniceus Orton is recognized as a species on the basis of molecular data in a recent paper by Niskanen et al., but I have never seen a reliably identified photograph of it. Plus it is said to occur in broadleaved areas. Brandrud synonymizes C. puniceus with C. sanguineus, apparently wrongly so, as there is some evolutionary variance between the two, but it goes to show that even the best morphologists cannot resolve some of the esoteric evidence.

Having seen a few “bloody” Dermocybe myself, both morphological and molecular data, I venture say that it will take more than a conjecture to be certain which is which, mainly because our material in the West has not been properly studied.

Adolf, your collection may be something new, although that in the Sanguinei clade for certain. You should send me the collection and I’ll get some clarity eventually. It is not anywhere near the top on my list, but rework of Dermocybe in our area is more than needed. I will discuss at length some of the intricacies with Dermocybe that I am currently aware of on MusrhoomTalk, if someone has the patience to listen & understand…



Specimen sent away
By: Oluna & Adolf Ceska (aceska@telus.net)
2011-11-22 22:01:14 CST (-0500)

Specimen was sent to Prof. Ammirati for further study

I think
By: Irene Andersson (irenea)
2011-11-21 16:20:10 CST (-0500)

Cortinarius puniceus is a closer match..

Created: 2011-11-21 16:05:58 CST (-0500)
Last modified: 2012-10-19 18:26:19 CDT (-0400)
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