Observation 89477: Amanita sect. Caesareae Singer
When: 2012-03-16
Herbarium specimen reported

Proposed Names

72% (3)
Recognized by sight
29% (1)
Recognized by sight

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Eye3 = Observer’s choice
Eyes3 = Current consensus


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Gray would suggest that A. virginiana
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-04-16 19:39:11 CDT (-0500)

should be eliminated. Then we are looking at either A. spretella (named from Florida by Murrill) and A. pachysperma (not [yet?] known from Florida). I’ve never seen a proportionately long stem on pachysperma or a large, well-formed, saccate volva either.

We’ll see what tomorrow brings.

Very best,


a shade of gray…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2012-04-16 18:38:06 CDT (-0500)

if anything, the gray just got deeper towards the center of the cap.
i foolishly, proposed the initial “Amanita sp. (sect. Vaginatae)” based on this observation.
let me know if you need anything else.
thanks again Rod & Cristina.

We made a little progress [edit]
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-04-16 18:20:24 CDT (-0500)

We can eliminate Amanita recutita sensu Coker, A. sp-V02, A. cokeriana, and maybe A. spretella because of spore size/shape and/or cap color. The first two have broader, more tear-drop-shaped gills, too. The brightly colored taxa and very pallid Caesareae are not under consideration in this case.

The best remaining matches are the 2-spored “Little Caesars” (i.e., A. virginiana, A. pachysperma, and A. subvirginiana [if the latter is different from A. virginiana]). Rod was kind of hoping for spretella. (We have a problem in that there is very little data on the spore size-shape of that species.) [edit] On the other hand, the size of the volval sac is just too big for the “Little Caesars.”

Tomorrow Cristina is going to check to see if we have two-spored basidia in this specimen…it’s quitting time for her at this writing.

We are having a little trouble interpreting the color of the cap. Cristina’s MAC shows a stronger brown tint to the cap while my HP PC showing a slightly brownish gray cap. We need your help here. Judging from your memory of the center of the cap (with the help of your photos) which extreme of these two would you pick as closest to the cap color when fresh: A shade of gray or a rather deep brown (maybe with hints of red)?

If this is too much to ask, we’ll do the best we can and see if you can find more material in the coming year(s).

Very best,

Rod & Cristina

thank you…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2012-04-11 11:22:01 CDT (-0500)

very much looking forward to the results.
thanks again.

package arrived
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-04-11 11:01:35 CDT (-0500)

Thank you.

Nice packing. :-)


Looking forward to the package.
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-03-16 23:03:17 CDT (-0500)

I’m hitting the sack now.


will do.
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2012-03-16 22:43:15 CDT (-0500)

i have a gel-air dryer.
im pretty excited about this.
thanks man.

There is a good chance that this is one of the species of Murrill of
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-03-16 22:40:06 CDT (-0500)

which we know very, very little.

Or it might be something I collected once in the Atlantic Coastal Plain in Virginia.

I’m quite curious to see how this turns out.

Yes, I do very much want to see the dried material. Be sure it’s good and dry before you ship.

Very best,


gray like a grisette…
By: Debbie Viess (amanitarita)
2012-03-16 13:08:49 CDT (-0500)

but with an annulus. No wonder you are excited about this one, Rod!

kinda like our calyptratoides here in the west…

i thought…
By: Richard and Danielle Kneal (bloodworm)
2012-03-16 13:08:21 CDT (-0500)

something was off. want to take a look at it?
i’ll send it off as soon as it dries.

I think there is a small, but distinct ring
By: R. E. Tulloss (ret)
2012-03-16 12:51:56 CDT (-0500)

on the stem. I hope you dried this one. This could be very interesting.

Very best,


Created: 2012-03-16 12:01:44 CDT (-0500)
Last modified: 2012-04-16 18:25:17 CDT (-0500)
Viewed: 186 times, last viewed: 2016-10-23 10:54:59 CDT (-0500)
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